Hi, just curious. If a foe is blinded or flat-footed, would you still get a flanking bonus with a flanker? He can't see you to be distracted by your flanker if blinded, or he's lost his DEX from being flat-footed.
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When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.
When in doubt about whether two characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two attackers' centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent's space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.
Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking.
Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus.
Creatures with a reach of 0 feet can't flank an opponent.
Blinded
The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class, loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and takes a –4 penalty on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks and on opposed Perception skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) against the blinded character. Blind creatures must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to move faster than half speed. Creatures that fail this check fall prone. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.
Seems to me that whether the opponent is blinded or flanked you're already getting a +2 to hit and it's flat-footed, so if I were GMing, I wouldn't let the two conditions stack.
Yes you still get the bonus. If invisible opponents cause a flank then no reason why being blinded would not let it come into play.
Effectively there is not much difference.
SKR said invisible opponents still cause a flanking bonus.
PS:I still don't like it because neither one make sense to me.
Yes you still get the bonus. If invisible opponents cause a flank then no reason why being blinded would not let it come into play.
Effectively there is not much difference.
SKR said invisible opponents still cause a flanking bonus.
PS:I still don't like it because neither one make sense to me.
Hi Wraithstrike,
I'm sorry for bring back to life this discussion but please, answer me, since i need that bit of information:
Where SKR said an opponent with total concealment (like an invisible opponent) can get flanked? Can you link me something?
I don't have one from SKR but here's one from a different DEV. here
I don't have one from SKR but here's one from a different DEV. here
I have a list of dev quotes and that is the one I have. I don't know why I said it was SKR.
Weird as it seems, visibility nor even awareness of threat are completely irrelevant to the flanking rules. Yeah.
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Yes you still get the bonus. If invisible opponents cause a flank then no reason why being blinded would not let it come into play.
Effectively there is not much difference.
SKR said invisible opponents still cause a flanking bonus.
PS:I still don't like it because neither one make sense to me.
Hi Wraithstrike,
I'm sorry for bring back to life this discussion but please, answer me, since i need that bit of information:
Where SKR said an opponent with total concealment (like an invisible opponent) can get flanked? Can you link me something?
The discussion is about an invisible creature being one of the creatures that give the flanking bonus.
Not about a invisible creature being threatened.To threaten someone you must be able to make an attack into his square.
Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.
As written, the only requirement is that you should be able to attack into that square, noting more. So you can threaten an invisible opponent, as long as you are able to act.
Most master read in a more restrict way: you should be able to attack the creature into the square, and you should be able to do that outside of your turn i fit provoke. To do that you need to see it or detect it with blindsight or a similar ability, so generally they don't allow to flank an invisible creature.
You flank a creature if you are on opposite sides and threaten them.
Not being able to Take AoO doesn't stop threatening.
Thus you flank if you're in flanking position.