Can a Dawn-flower Dervish use Perform:Oratory for their battle dance?
no
Oratory =/= Dance.
Therefore refer to Judas 147's response.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just wonder because it says
"A Dawnflower dervish is trained in the use of the Perform skill, especially dance, to create magical effects on himself. This works like bardic performance, except that the Dawnflower dervish’s performances grant double their normal bonuses, but these bonuses only affect him. He does not need to be able to see or hear his own performance."
It doesnt specifically state that a Dawnflower Dervish must use Perform:Dance to do a Battle dance, merely that he uses the Perform skill. The fact that they also include "He does not need to be able to see or hear his own performance." means that they are acknowledging that a DD may not be using dance to do his battle dance because dance is Visual (see) and lacks an audio (hear) component.
Sure, as long as that "battle dance" isn't Dervish Dance - which itself requires two ranks of Perform (dance).
Of course, a Dawnflower Dervish needs two ranks of Perform (dance) anyway because he has to have Dervish Dance as a feat to qualify for the prestige class, so it's kind of a non-issue.
That said, I see no reason why you can't "re-skin" the battle dance to make it less silly, using Oratory instead of Dance (though I'm not sure what that would mean, exactly - there's nothing "mobile" about Oratory), with a GM's okay, of course. You'll still have to have two ranks of Perform (dance), though, to qualify for the feat (and prestige class).
If it's just a flavor thing (and I assume you just hate the idea of your character "dancing" in battle), ask your GM if you can use Perform (tumbling) or Perform (circus arts) or the like in place of Perform (dance) to qualify for Dervish Dance?
Well Dawnflower dervish grants Dervish Dance for free at 1st level so you dont have to qualify.
ok, thats the way that a munchkin paraphrase evrything to can break a rule indeed!!
so, if you want to switch the dancing for oratory, why did you pick a dervish in the first place if you dont want the dancing issues?
maybe the next question from you will be: "how do i can attack with twf with my oratory dervish dancer?" or alike!!
do not missunderstanding me, im a guy who love change rules every time it make sense for the flavor and plot. but this one sounds so silly,,, it remindsme that question before from another guy asking for a twf without the -2 at the penalty (the only creature which do such a thing is the ettin, and that´s because he has 2 brains and is only for that monsters abilitie!!
play nice, love the game, love the character and read how it works, if that archetype dont fit with you, dump it and pick another!!
Well Dawnflower dervish grants Dervish Dance for free at 1st level so you dont have to qualify.
I'm fairly certain the reason for that is so that you can start with the feat in question rather than having to wait however many levels it takes to get enough ranks in Perform: Dance normally, not so you can just ignore the thematic point of the archetype concept in question.
The Archetype name is Dawnflower , not Cheesy Combat Bard. Historically, Dervishes were a Muslim sect known for ecstatic dancing which supposedly gave them superior martial prowess.
My master concept is Griffith from Berserk, and he was certainly not a dancer but did use a scimitar type weapon and gave rousing speeches to bolster the troups. But he was in the end very selfish. I was going to my plan is DD 3/ Standard-Bearer 2 Cockrice/ Battle Herald 10.
I dont care about the history of dervishes, if PF allowed anyone to apply dex to dmg without having to dance then I would do that but as it stands, you have to have the DD feat. Now I dont see how its being cheesy switching dance to oratory.
I put this in the Rules section to make sure that you COULD legally use any form of perform that didnt interfere with hold a scimitar in one hand while having nothing in the other rather than dancing to preform "battle dances"
Well Dawnflower dervish grants Dervish Dance for free at 1st level so you dont have to qualify.
Sure you do - where are you getting that you don't need the prereqs to use class-granted feats?
In the few cases where bonus feats *are* granted without prerequisites, the class description says so - rangers and masters of many styles come to mind - and it doesn't say so in this case.
The Dawnflower Dervish certainly needs two ranks of Perform (dance) to use Dervish Dance!
I asked a fundamentally similar question in this thread. I was told that since there was no choice of feats granted, that the feat that was granted without choice is immediately usable. YMMV.
Examples: Tattooed Sorcerer that gains Varisian Tattoo without Spell Focus that is it's normal prerequisite, Lore Warden archetype that gains Combat Expertise at 2nd level regardless of Int score, others.
I don't know, the only support in that thread seems to be a recollection that "lots of developers have said this a few times" - no citation or anything.
It seems reasonable from an RAI perspective, but - and I'm thinking in terms of PFS here - I don't see that as being supported by RAW, at least not in light of discussions of feats in the CRB. An FAQ candidate, perhaps.
|
Since one of the pre-requisites for the feat is two ranks in perform dance, and since the lowest level in which it is possible to get two ranks in any skill is second level, and since a Dawnflower Dervish is granted the feat at first level, it should be self-evident that the feat is granted before attainment of the pre-requisite is even possible!
Therefore, the DD must be able to gain the feat without having the pre-requisite, therefore no pre-requisite is required!
Since one of the pre-requisites for the feat is two ranks in perform dance, and since the lowest level in which it is possible to get two ranks in any skill is second level, and since a Dawnflower Dervish is granted the feat at first level, it should be self-evident that the feat is granted before attainment of the pre-requisite is even possible!
Therefore, the DD must be able to gain the feat without having the pre-requisite, therefore no pre-requisite is required!
+1
ok, thats the way that a munchkin paraphrase evrything to can break a rule indeed!!
"Oh no, he invested the exact same amount of skill points on a different type of the exact same skill, granting him no real mechanical advantage! What a dirty munchkin!"
A DD Bard does not need to have a single rank in dance. He may be dancing while fighting, but nothing requires the dancing to actually be any good. Actually, dancing in a clumsy, uncoordinated, unpredictable fashion could potentially be pretty effective in combat....