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So I have a fear that eventually a smart DM is going to try to take out my Flagbearer banner in order to give the party minuses. I can think of two ways: Disarm and Sunder.
Disarm isn't too hard to get around as you can wear a locked gauntlet for the +10 modifier. Plus, even if you drop it, you just pick it up again and it surely won't trigger the Stolen or Destroyed clauses in the feat. You just wouldn't give the bonuses until you picked it up again.
Sunder is the one that scares me. First off, what would they sunder: the banner itself, or the pole? I ask because you can get better poles, but the banner is just cloth. What would give the best bang for the buck on poles and would it be better to have a longspear instead? What if the banner were actually the Banner of the Ancient Kings? What would the Hardness and Hitpoints be of a magic banner?
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They make a pill for that these days...
make the banner and pole out of a giant pieces of adamantine that you then have a caster cast shrink item on to make it small (and cloth-like for the banner) and of course permanency that. Follow up with a level 20 harden spell
You now have a hardness 30 pole and cloth with an ungodly number of hit points. For further effect have the pole be a +5 quarterstaff with the enhancements that make it harder to break.
You've now wasted an ungodly sum of money on a very ridiculous item that at least keeps your class feature safe...r.
Magic items are damaged and have the hit points of a normal object of their type unless stated otherwise as per the magic item section of the book.
You could take improved sunder yourself. That increases your CMD vs sunder.
As do certain things that add an AC bonus like the ring of protection.
A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD.
Then I'd make the pole from whipwood. That increases it's hp and gives another +2 to sunder CMD.
Magic banners would get an increased saving throw but that is only relevant if this save is then higher than your own.
The rules for increased hp and hardness only apply to magic arms and armor.
If you really think this could be a problem for you in your game talk to the gm before the game starts how he will handle it. What will he smite banner or pole, how hard is this to do. What can you do to protect your flag and so on.
Don't forget that, without Improved Sunder, the attacker will provoke an attack of opportunity just for trying. So, kill him. The best defense is making sure all your enemies are dead:)
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At low levels, I just make sure I have the cantrip Mending and possibly an extra flag. Sometimes I carry different flags for different situations.
Of course, at higher levels when you can afford magic flags, this would be different.
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Well, imagine you built a fast talking PC, with high Bluff and Diplomacy, who likes to weasel his way out of trouble with his silver tongue.
Now imagine the DM consistently had enemies shatter your PC's jaw, cast silence on you, and puts you up against mindless foes, and all NPCs seemed to have nigh epic Sense Motive.
If this is the type of reaction you are getting, you need to consider a sit down with the DM.
Have everyone with a free hand carry a flag!
My monk will now attach a flag to his quarterstaff and give a beatdown to whoever targets it.
Tribal cultures would realize what a banner is. After nearly all Tribal Cultures have a banner of their own.
Simplest method I know is the +5 Weapon to strengthen the pole.
I was stating that is the simplest method I know of to protect it.
Protecting the flag is complicated and I am trying to figure out how to word it to get it across easily.
I really am curious how one would damage a flag. Most Banners I have seen are Triangle Banners. The typical Square Banners are Parade Banners and were never used in Combat.
Heck, Roman Banners were just the Pole with Icons on top of it.
the one I know of is 1-20 GP and weighs 2 lbs. BotAK seems more like a Parade Banner or the Asinine Images from WH40K.
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I am with you on the point that many Warhammer figs have stupidly large banners, but those tend to be twice the height of the bearer, or more, and most characters will be around 6ft in Pathfinder (unless small).
I use this fig and I think that's pretty accurate and reasonable.
To be perfectly honest is it even possible to attack the Banner Itself in PFS?
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Well I read of a module recently where a character was forced to give up his Mithral Full Plate of Speed to an overwhelming enemy. It's written in the mod that you have to barter with the baddie and apparently they chose negotiation with the sword and it didn't go well. Those who knew the module (I haven't played it) seemed to think that was reasonable as it's written that the monster will take their most valuable item.
I was really turned off by that, and I won't play that mod. But it shows that it's legal to steal a huge piece of a character's expected wealth. With that in mind, a hardcore DM could certainly destroy my flag if they felt like it. I don't think most of the DMs in my area would, cuz that's just being a jerk, but you never know.
My expectation is that most would go for the pole, sunder it, give penalties for the rest of the fight but allow me to still have the item for later fights and mods.
I can see the Armour and such like that. But is there even rules to target a Wondrous Item like the Banner? At least one where you don't get a Save against it.
But you do get a Reflex Save or such for it. Or they use your CMD which would allow you to defend it.
What class and race are you again?
And Again most of those banners weren't used by Combat troops. They were used in Parade and In command areas.
Yes, you definitely get to use your CMD. But against a large and strong opponent, us poor medium heroes often have a rather pathetic defense.
You have a mostly full BAB build, you get to add two stats to your defense and then half of the things that give you a bonus to your AC.
Sorry if I don't cry that hard for you.
If you were a Human Fighter you could be safe using your Favoured Class Bonus... It has been forever since I dealt with a Bard or Cavalier needing to worry about sundering...
Viagra...sorry, nothing to see here...move along..
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I wasn't asking for sympathy, but at level 12 I will have:
+10 (Base)
+11 (BAB)
+3 (Str)
+3 (Dex)
+2 (Ring of Protection +2)
+1 (Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier)
= 30 CMD
An Adult Red Dragon hits me on a 1. A Gelugon hits on an 9. A Nalfeshnee hits on a 3. Yes, there are those who have it worse off, but they're probably not going to be handing out +5 to hit and damage aided greatly by a giant flag they're waving about.
Do dragons appear in PFS?
Those are also CR 14... and one of them only has a 45% chance of hitting your stick (not you).
In my personal opinion if I was one of those monsters I would probably be more worried about the 4~5 people in front of me than the stick with cloth one of them are carrying.
Those are also CR 14... and one of them only has a 45% chance of hitting your stick (not you).
In my personal opinion if I was one of those monsters I would probably be more worried about the 4~5 people in front of me than the stick with cloth one of them are carrying.
Agreed. Unless it is clear that your flag is the only thing allowing your allies to land a hit, I'd be a lot more focused on dropping people.
You can also repair it with Make Whole if the unthinkable happens.
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Those are also CR 14... and one of them only has a 45% chance of hitting your stick (not you).
In my personal opinion if I was one of those monsters I would probably be more worried about the 4~5 people in front of me than the stick with cloth one of them are carrying.
Agreed. Unless it is clear that your flag is the only thing allowing your allies to land a hit, I'd be a lot more focused on dropping people.
You can also repair it with Make Whole if the unthinkable happens.
Well dropping the Banner would subtract 4 from my bard level and turn a +2 Morale bonus into a -1 (possibly -2) Morale penalty. So you go from +5 to hit and damage to +1 (possibly +0), with just one action. Is it worth that action to take the PCs from hitting almost every time, back down to parity? I think some would think so.
I guess make whole isn't too bad. Only costs 320 gold to put it back together. I need to see how hard it is to find a 16th level caster in PFS though.
I guess make whole isn't too bad. Only costs 320 gold to put it back together. I need to see how hard it is to find a 16th level caster in PFS though.
You can also use Blur and/or Mirror Image to give yourself a miss chance.
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I guess make whole isn't too bad. Only costs 320 gold to put it back together. I need to see how hard it is to find a 16th level caster in PFS though.A wizard did it.
That doesn't necessarily answer the question though. You can't have a 7th level spell cast on you because of the "rarity" of such powerful spellcasters in PFS. To cast a 7th level spell you have to be a 15th level wizard. I can see room for interpreting that you can't find a 16th level caster for the Make Whole.
That doesn't necessarily answer the question though. You can't have a 7th level spell cast on you because of the "rarity" of such powerful spellcasters in PFS. To cast a 7th level spell you have to be a 15th level wizard. I can see room for interpreting that you can't find a 16th level caster for the Make Whole.I guess make whole isn't too bad. Only costs 320 gold to put it back together. I need to see how hard it is to find a 16th level caster in PFS though.A wizard did it.
Mike Brock (the campaign coordinator) is explicitly saying that you just pay the cost for repair and assume you were able to find the appropriate caster.
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I hate when Paizo folks answer questions with This, Yes or No. Most of the time that doesn't really answer the question. I suppose I will take the ruling because it helps me, but it doesn't make a lick of sense. We can't have 7th level spells cast, but we can find a roaming epic level caster to fix our items.
I hate when Paizo folks answer questions with This, Yes or No. Most of the time that doesn't really answer the question. I suppose I will take the ruling because it helps me, but it doesn't make a lick of sense. We can't have 7th level spells cast, but we can find a roaming epic level caster to fix our items.
The actual post takes some unraveling, but the text on the link is more clear: pay for the repair and don't ask any pesky questions.
I'd already been looking into this because I have a very expensive sword and just picked up Improved Sunder, which means I'm about to Inception a bunch of GMs into breaking my stuff.
I would just explain it as a retired Wizard who helps Pathfinders for a little gold on the side.