|
I've been considering making a melee combat oracle recently, but I can't decide whether to take the Battle or Metal mysteries. Metal gives the two very nice maneuverability revelations, but battle gives the options like sudden charge, the initiative one, and the weapon focus/imp crit etc, as well as perception as a class skill. They seem very close to me, so which is better? Maneuverability (possibly double if I'm in Mithril full plate with dance of steel and the other revelation) or a bit more combat effectiveness? Also, I'd appreciate some other suggestions like which revelations first. I was considering wielding a naginata and great sword once I get skill at arms, or should I ignore reach/combat reflexes?
I'm playing a 12 level Metal Oracle right now . I went the THF with a great sword,vital strike and power attack route . With lead blade,keen edge and Righteous Might up I hit REALLY hard . Both are good though.
I suggest a Wood Oracle if you want to go this way. As far as a Combat Oracle goes I think Metal, Wood, and Ancestor are better than Battle.
I suggest that if you decide on an Oracle that gets an armor as a revelation that you find out if your dm will let you cast Magic Vestment on it. They are pretty good armors if you can, though it takes until level 8 or 10 before it starts getting really good.
Also a Wood Oracle can become a Treant. If you take the right revelation you can summon a wooden weapon. Or summon more Wooden Armor if you took that revelation. I'm not clear on whether a Wood Oracle in Treant form can summon his armor (or keep his existing armor), or summon a weapon appropriate for him.
But imagine a treant with wooden armor with magic vestment on it, swinging a telephone pole.
Plus Wood Bond is Gold!
Battle is the best one for offense and maneuvers, just lacks a little in defense.
I love all of them, but I like metal as a skirmisher/vital strike/leadblades build and dip titan mauler barbarian wield a large greataxe or a large falcata and go for the 1 big hit build. Maybe into rage prophet, since as a melee build you won't need all those spell slots and can use them to power rage rounds. Get enlarge person put on you with permanency and your damage dice go through the roof.
I don't really like Battle or think it's even especially good.
I think the best "fighty" mystery is Ancestors, followed pretty closely by Wood and Metal.
Battle gives amazing outstanding CMB, free melee-feats, almighty surprising charge, war sight, combat healer (what actually is really good!) and maybe battlefiel clarity.
Your CMB will be insne, your damage great, surprising charge is free fullattack or free life saver and theres just so much more. Skills are great a well.
Works best for dual cursed as you can burn quickened ill omen after having main buffs up.
Maybe even dip paladin.
Whats not to like? Even DPR without maneuvers is better than all the other relevations.
Ok, it needs level 7 to really kick in.
I'm curious how you all feel about Ancestral Weapon, Iron Weapon, and Wooden Weapon. Each of these abilities gives you a magic weapon on demand, which ain't a bad thing. On the other hand, it takes a standard action to summon the weapon, which you'll have to do at the beginning of each fight.
Is spending a standard action at the beginning of each fight and using one of your few revelations worth saving the money on a magic weapon?
I love all of them, but I like metal as a skirmisher/vital strike/leadblades build and dip titan mauler barbarian wield a large greataxe or a large falcata and go for the 1 big hit build. Maybe into rage prophet, since as a melee build you won't need all those spell slots and can use them to power rage rounds. Get enlarge person put on you with permanency and your damage dice go through the roof.
He's right; the best you could do is wield a large Bastard Sword or Katana (if you have the proficiency)
As for the summoned weapons (since the armor lasts hours!), the ideal situation is actually summoning on round -1. You know, right before you kick the door in or whatever.
Even if you can just guess within a minute of the next fight, you should be solid by mid level. Fights just about never last more than a minute, either, so it shouldn't be especially taxing on your uses per day.
I agree, though, that it's not awesome to have to summon your weapon during a combat. Always carry a back up (though you certainly don't need to keep it highly enchanted or anything).
Also remember that you're summoning a real weapon here, so you can use Greater Magic Weapon on it. Same goes for the Armor and Magic Vestments.
I feel I need to mention the surprising charge ability for the Oracle of Battle.
There are precious few times you are allowed to move as an immediate action, closing a discreet distance to escape an area of effect spell or suddenly position an attack of opportunity on an enemy caster that wasn't expecting any trouble can create an exceptional advantage. The single move action range is limiting, and it is a once per day ability, but it is a very rewarding feeling to be able to interrupt and foil an enemy who is now committed to an action.
I feel I need to mention the surprising charge ability for the Oracle of Battle.
There are precious few times you are allowed to move as an immediate action, closing a discreet distance to escape an area of effect spell or suddenly position an attack of opportunity on an enemy caster that wasn't expecting any trouble can create an exceptional advantage. The single move action range is limiting, and it is a once per day ability, but it is a very rewarding feeling to be able to interrupt and foil an enemy who is now committed to an action.
So, ok, it's awesome that your GM lets you use it that way, but Immediate Actions happen either before or after an enemy's action. You either do it right before they take their action, which means they haven't acted yet, and thus are not committed to their action, or just after, in which case its been taken and you can't mess with or interrupt it.
This ability does not, for example, allow you to rush up to a caster while they're casting and hit them with a spell disrupting AoO. It'd be nice if it did, but ultimately, the ability is it not that great.
(clip)So, ok, it's awesome that your GM lets you use it that way, but Immediate Actions happen either before or after an enemy's action. You either do it right before they take their action, which means they haven't acted yet, and thus are not committed to their action, or just after, in which case its been taken and you can't mess with or interrupt it.
This ability does not, for example, allow you to rush up to a caster while they're casting and hit them with a spell disrupting AoO. It'd be nice if it did, but ultimately, the ability is it not that great.
You and I disagree on the definition of "interrupt" and the statement "can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn."
But I don't want to mis-characterize what I was suggesting, the GM is comfortable announcing segments of NPC actions (5 foot steps and such) and when an immediate action is announced, the action it is specifically reacting to (and intending to interrupt) is committed, (targets can change, but NPCs can't retroactively adjust actions in response to an interrupting act).
I concede that this is merely the way my groups plays, but I struggle to see a reasonable alternative for immediate actions.(presuming you don't force 'at any time' to mean only between full turns)
Battle Oracles get one of the best CMB score of all characters. With just spending one feat.
I love the idea of Maneuver Mastery, but it picks up a bit slow for my taste. Since you don't get "improved" until 7th level, it's not really worth using (or taking) until 7th, while a fighter who wants to use combat maneuvers can start with "improved" at 1st level, and have "Greater" at 6th. Net effect:You do get to make a move and full attack. Which is excellent. I've been taking another look at the Battle Oracle. I think it is better than I remembered.
One thing I still don't like about it, though you don't have to take that revelation, is the Maneuver Mastery. It's kind of weird it explicitly lets you use your oracle level instead of your bab when you do a cmb with your selected feat. But it doesn't add your charisma bonus. If they were going to go that route, I would think that the charisma bonus should have been added.
I just think maneuvers aren't very useful the higher you go, particularly since even with this mystery you aren't going to be super good at them. Even with the size change magic you have available you aren't going to be nearly as good as some of the other classes.
It's got a good level 20 capstone too, but most people will never see it.
- The fighter gets to use combat maneuvers effectively during levels 1-10, levels when many of the maneuvers shine.
- The oracle gets to use maneuvers during levels 7-10 before finding that most high-CR enemies are not vulnerable to combat maneuvers. Also, by the time the oracle's combat maneuvers come online, he's got a boatload of powerful spells available, and should probably spend his actions casting them.
I love the idea of Maneuver Mastery, but it picks up a bit slow for my taste. Since you don't get "improved" until 7th level, it's not really worth using (or taking) until 7th, while a fighter who wants to use combat maneuvers can start with "improved" at 1st level, and have "Greater" at 6th. Net effect:You do get to make a move and full attack. Which is excellent. I've been taking another look at the Battle Oracle. I think it is better than I remembered.
One thing I still don't like about it, though you don't have to take that revelation, is the Maneuver Mastery. It's kind of weird it explicitly lets you use your oracle level instead of your bab when you do a cmb with your selected feat. But it doesn't add your charisma bonus. If they were going to go that route, I would think that the charisma bonus should have been added.
I just think maneuvers aren't very useful the higher you go, particularly since even with this mystery you aren't going to be super good at them. Even with the size change magic you have available you aren't going to be nearly as good as some of the other classes.
It's got a good level 20 capstone too, but most people will never see it.
- The fighter gets to use combat maneuvers effectively during levels 1-10, levels when many of the maneuvers shine.
- The oracle gets to use maneuvers during levels 7-10 before finding that most high-CR enemies are not vulnerable to combat maneuvers. Also, by the time the oracle's combat maneuvers come online, he's got a boatload of powerful spells available, and should probably spend his actions casting them.
** spoiler omitted **...
Ever considered using the favored class bonus on this revelation? +1/2 to Oracle's effective level. Means you can get the improved version at level 5 and greater version at level 8, and a total of +5 extra CMB at level 10.