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Hey folks, i just wanted to post a number of ways i would handle various wishes that were not listed in the spell description. Some of these were ideas that others have shared on the message boards. I got a general idea that for some, Wish was a headache waiting to happen, hopefully, this may help some, but take my suggestions with a grain of salt. I put a bit of humor and comical sarcasm for a number of these, just an FYI ;)
What other effects can a wish have outside of what's listed under the description?
-Increased wealth; Although this is a situation that should never come up, if a character actually find him/herself low on coin, a Wish can be used to gain an amount of wealth not to exceed 25,000 GP. The reason is two-fold: 1) 25,000 GP is still a significant amount of wealth. Consider, the average cost of living for characters is listed at 10 GP/Month. That character could live comfortably for 2,500 months or just over 208 years.2) It also keeps potential abuse away from the players. You may think, "Why not 50,000 GP, that's not game breaking is it?" Yes and no, 50,000 GP could potentially be converted into two 25,000 GP diamonds. "Did someone say wish for more wishes?"
-Magic Items; Seriously?......Enough said.
-Increase in BAB, AC, CMB, CMD, Initiative etc; Just follow the guidelines for inherent bonuses, from a +1 to +5 based on the number of wishes used in immediate succession.
-Wishing for a castle, tower or keep etc; Ok, i think this can be handled logically in two different ways: 1)The power of a wish could be used to create a dwelling whos total value does not exceed 25,000 GP. Call it a castle if you like ;)2)Or, the wish can create up to 25,000 GP's worth of material used for the construction of a dwelling.
-Spell resistance; Don't overthink this, it's actually a simple fix, costly for the caster, but simple. 1)A single wish can grant an SR of 1/2 character level +5. 2)Two wishes can grant an SR of character level +5.
-Damage reduction; Again, following the guidelines for inherent bonuses, a DR of 1/- to 5/- or any variation /magic, /silver, whatever the DM is comfortable with. Yes, any DR from a wish stacks with any existing DR.
-Spells; If the minimum caster level for wish is 17th, and that individual wishes for more spells, just ROFL at the player for never bothering with spell research. Or just pat him on the head ;)
-Spell slots/spells known/spells per day; Bear with me folks while i try to word this correctly <not comical sarcasm, being honest>. I would handle the wish thusly; One wish will grant a single spell slot, spells known or spells per day of a spell level of up to the highest spell level that caster can cast/know/per day minus 1. So at 17th level for a wizard, a wish can grant a spell slot of up to 8th level.
Again, the humor is deliberate, most of us i'm sure have had various types of silly wish experiences throughout our gaming experience, but the suggestions i made should be helpful to some i hope.
As a side note, although some of these may raise some eyebrows at first blush, remember the cost associated with a wish. Unless 25k diamonds are fairly easy to come by in your game worlds, this should not present a major issue. Thank you folks for your time and if any of these suggestions help you, i'm glad to be of service :)
Wish for a geological map of where the diamonds are. Probably in the volcano on dinosaur island. A blank space on the map indicates where someone wished for their mine to be protected from scrying. :)
I would be very, very wary about allowing things which are "stackable" (like extra spell slots per wish) - remember that there are beings - potentially subject to Planar Binding - which can grant wishes as a spell-like ability. I know *I* would be doing that ALL day long and getting spell slots!
A good discussion of Wishcraft is laid out in the "Legacy of Fire" AP (if you have access to that), but basically a "good" wish (ie. less likely to be corrupted by the grantor) is sort of "outwardly directed" (ie. using a wish to help others), while a "bad" wish tends to be more "inward" (make me rich, make me the prettiest princess at the ball, and so on).
Example: "I wish for damage reduction" = get actual *stone* skin... you have DR but can barely move.
I think a good rule is that the only permanent bonus which can be conferred by the spell are the inherent ability score bonuses (which is fantastic, of course).
Wishing for wealth simply turns the spell into a perpetual motion machine, so I'd avoid allowing it: spend 25k to get 50k, and then spend *that* on TWO wishes (100k), and we just keep doubling our money.
Wishing for things like SR, energy immunities and so on is tantamount to wishing for a template - I think this is fine as a temporary condition (maybe 10 mins/level), but it's hugely overpowered. I mean, I'd just Planar Bind an Efreet, then, and turn three wishes (SLAs, so they're free) into being a Half-Dragon Fey Vampire version of myself: whee!
Wish is great as for spell versatility, as a player-driven deus ex machina, and as a plot device; it shouldn't allow players to skip actual play on their way to becoming richer and stronger.
I have hakf a mind to throw a genie into my next campaign just so I van offer a player a player a wish as a reward and watch the entire party debate for a weak over ehat to wish for.
-Increase in BAB, AC, CMB, CMD, Initiative etc; Just follow the guidelines for inherent bonuses, from a +1 to +5 based on the number of wishes used in immediate succession.
Funny, I was just thinking about these recently.
-Spell resistance; Don't overthink this, it's actually a simple fix, costly for the caster, but simple. 1)A single wish can grant an SR of 1/2 character level +5. 2)Two wishes can grant an SR of character level +5.
I think on this, I'd actually go with something like 1-5 wishes that grant a +5 bonus each. Compared to the Spell Resistance spell this amounts to a permanent SR 25, as opposed to a temporary SR 32 (cast by a level 20 spellcaster, assumedly). 7 points less for always on seems like a good tradeoff, imo.
I know the math works out to the same as you said at level 20, but I think 2 wishes might be a little easy for that much SR. Compared to a mantle that gives SR 21 and costs 90000 G, along with taking up a slot, I think permanent SR 25 might be a little more costly than 50K :P
Wishing for things like SR, energy immunities and so on is tantamount to wishing for a template - I think this is fine as a temporary condition (maybe 10 mins/level), but it's hugely overpowered. I mean, I'd just Planar Bind an Efreet, then, and turn three wishes (SLAs, so they're free) into being a Half-Dragon Fey Vampire version of myself: whee!
I don't know if it's quite that bad... Spending a few hundred thousand GP in diamonds for a couple resistances, immunities or damage reduction seems like it'll take a... lot of money to turn yourself into a Half-Celestial Lycanthropic Lich :P
Though I am certainly curious what would happen if you did bind an efreet and ask for those templates. That could end up with some fun consequences.
Also, energy resistances! 10 per wish with a max of 30 might be good. I don't know about immunities though. Maybe 5 wishes could grant an immunity... Hmm.
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I would be very, very wary about allowing things which are "stackable" (like extra spell slots per wish) - remember that there are beings - potentially subject to Planar Binding - which can grant wishes as a spell-like ability. I know *I* would be doing that ALL day long and getting spell slots!
A good discussion of Wishcraft is laid out in the "Legacy of Fire" AP (if you have access to that), but basically a "good" wish (ie. less likely to be corrupted by the grantor) is sort of "outwardly directed" (ie. using a wish to help others), while a "bad" wish tends to be more "inward" (make me rich, make me the prettiest princess at the ball, and so on).
Example: "I wish for damage reduction" = get actual *stone* skin... you have DR but can barely move.
I think a good rule is that the only permanent bonus which can be conferred by the spell are the inherent ability score bonuses (which is fantastic, of course).
Wishing for wealth simply turns the spell into a perpetual motion machine, so I'd avoid allowing it: spend 25k to get 50k, and then spend *that* on TWO wishes (100k), and we just keep doubling our money.
Wishing for things like SR, energy immunities and so on is tantamount to wishing for a template - I think this is fine as a temporary condition (maybe 10 mins/level), but it's hugely overpowered. I mean, I'd just Planar Bind an Efreet, then, and turn three wishes (SLAs, so they're free) into being a Half-Dragon Fey Vampire version of myself: whee!
Wish is great as for spell versatility, as a player-driven deus ex machina, and as a plot device; it shouldn't allow players to skip actual play on their way to becoming richer and stronger.
Lol, as a caster i would want to wish the heck out of getting more spell slots too.....BUT, unless a GM is ok with a player having access to that many 25k diamonds, it should never be something that allows players to get too silly with. Again, the material component required for a wish should be STRONGLY regulated and that should come with an understanding between a player and the GM long before he/she gets access to that spell.
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-Increase in BAB, AC, CMB, CMD, Initiative etc; Just follow the guidelines for inherent bonuses, from a +1 to +5 based on the number of wishes used in immediate succession.Funny, I was just thinking about these recently.
-Spell resistance; Don't overthink this, it's actually a simple fix, costly for the caster, but simple. 1)A single wish can grant an SR of 1/2 character level +5. 2)Two wishes can grant an SR of character level +5.I think on this, I'd actually go with something like 1-5 wishes that grant a +5 bonus each. Compared to the Spell Resistance spell this amounts to a permanent SR 25, as opposed to a temporary SR 32 (cast by a level 20 spellcaster, assumedly). 7 points less for always on seems like a good tradeoff, imo.
I know the math works out to the same as you said at level 20, but I think 2 wishes might be a little easy for that much SR. Compared to a mantle that gives SR 21 and costs 90000 G, along with taking up a slot, I think permanent SR 25 might be a little more costly than 50K :P
Wishing for things like SR, energy immunities and so on is tantamount to wishing for a template - I think this is fine as a temporary condition (maybe 10 mins/level), but it's hugely overpowered. I mean, I'd just Planar Bind an Efreet, then, and turn three wishes (SLAs, so they're free) into being a Half-Dragon Fey Vampire version of myself: whee!I don't know if it's quite that bad... Spending a few hundred thousand GP in diamonds for a couple resistances, immunities or damage reduction seems like it'll take a... lot of money to turn yourself into a Half-Celestial Lycanthropic Lich :P
Though I am certainly curious what would happen if you did bind an efreet and ask for those templates. That could end up with some fun consequences.
Also, energy resistances! 10 per wish with a max of 30 might...
The BAB, AC and so on is something i wanted to open up based on another poster. He gets the credit for the idea, but i think it should be at least touched on because just as sure as the sun rises, someone will ask if any of these statistics fall into the realm of upgrade via wish.
As far as the SR goes, that was more of an off the top of my head idea to futz around with. SR is a powerful ability and so too is the Wish spell. One could make it an ability useable 1 or more times per day; the more uses per day, the less duration it should have, something akin to what David Haller was saying. Or, assuming the GM is ok with wishing for SR, increase the number of wishes, which is where i think you were going with the comment.
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Oh, just to reiterate to touch on points that i didn't in my previous responses:
-Wealth: This started out with this situation should never happen. Like so many other aspects of wish, there needs to be a clear understanding between player and GM.
-Wish in general: Should never be an excuse to try and get over on the GM and/or mess with the campaign world.
-Overall opinion on Wish: Speaking for myself, if my character were at minimum 17th level and now having access to Wish, i really need to ask myself, "What do i, as a mighty Wizard/Sorcerer etc, really NEED to Wish for that could not be achieved another way?"
-One of the things that Wish should be is something David Haller touched on; it should be a plot device or something that can add flavor to a game. I love Wish, not for the little in-game mechanics bonuses it can provide, but for the unexpected twists and turns it can add. The unexpected can be amazingly fun, lol, especially on a poorly worded wish or one that would obviously go outside the bounds of common sense i.e. I wish for God-like power ;)
If someone wishes for a cat girl, give them a were tigress.
If someone wishes for something game breaking, not only should they get a more reasonable result, but some old one or banished titan should rip through the strained fabric of the multiverse. The only way to get rid of it is to unwish the wish.
If you'd like more rules on wishes, here's an article I did for Dragon many years ago.
As for someone who wishes for godlike power, I'd have Cayden Cailean appear, pat them on the back, and tell them that they're now blessed with the ability to drink as much as they want, never suffering any ill effects, not even so much as a hangover.
I'm certain that's the first godlike power Cayden gave himself as soon as he became a god, or at least the first one he noticed. And it's awesome!
Or Ugathoa could give you the power to eat as much as you want and still fit into your skinny jeans. What, you don't like being a skeleton from the waist down? Next time be more specific when you say "godlike."
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If you'd like more rules on wishes, here's an article I did for Dragon many years ago.
As for someone who wishes for godlike power, I'd have Cayden Cailean appear, pat them on the back, and tell them that they're now blessed with the ability to drink as much as they want, never suffering any ill effects, not even so much as a hangover.
I'm certain that's the first godlike power Cayden gave himself as soon as he became a god, or at least the first one he noticed. And it's awesome!
Or Ugathoa could give you the power to eat as much as you want and still fit into your skinny jeans. What, you don't like being a skeleton from the waist down? Next time be more specific when you say "godlike."
Lol, well said, well said sir :)
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Wish for more then 25k? Yep, you can do it. Unfortunately, it came from the treasury of an ancient gold dragon...or an elder god (depending on how munchkin the wizard is) and they want it back.
Wish for increases to AC...sure, you are now tiny sized.
Wish for increase to hit...yup tiny sized again.
Wish for BAB...well two levels wizard is now fighter...have fun.
Want more CMD or CMB...see above.
Wish for initiative...okay, lose one feat of my choice, get improve initiative.
Yeah...I'm a mean DM with wishes.
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Wish for more then 25k? Yep, you can do it. Unfortunately, it came from the treasury of an ancient gold dragon...or an elder god (depending on how munchkin the wizard is) and they want it back.
Wish for increases to AC...sure, you are now tiny sized.
Wish for increase to hit...yup tiny sized again.
Wish for BAB...well two levels wizard is now fighter...have fun.
Want more CMD or CMB...see above.
Wish for initiative...okay, lose one feat of my choice, get improve initiative.
Yeah...I'm a mean DM with wishes.
Lol, the intent on that part was for other classes mainly. A wizard wishing for any of that with the exception of maybe initiative would be, well, odd to put it mildly.
If someone wishes for a cat girl, give them a were tigress.
If someone wishes for something game breaking, not only should they get a more reasonable result, but some old one or banished titan should rip through the strained fabric of the multiverse. The only way to get rid of it is to unwish the wish.
The way I do it in my campaigns is that I ask myself who is actually casting the spell? As an arcane spell, the caster knows what they are trying to do. So, they want a catgirl they get a catgirl.
However, ask an evil Djinn for a catgirl and he very likely WILL give you that were-tigress!
If they are asking for something I consider game-breaking and they are casting it themselves, then I will politely explain that I find their wish game-breaking and work with them to come up with something more reasonable.
However, if they are asking an NPC Djinn for a wish, well... then all bets are off... Djinn are notorious in fiction for perverting wishes.
Evil Djinn=Efreeti.
A noble air Djinn would discuss the wishes and try to find the ones that will let the character survive.
If someone wishes for a catgirl, I give them a weretigress...
If someone wishes for something gamebreaking... I give them two very posessive and jealous weretigresses...