I found Jean Grey's resurrection, solely so that they could use her in the new X-Factor title, similarly annoying. It messed with her characterization (and they ended up getting bored with her and killing her off again anyway) and it messed with Scott's characterization (and he didn't recover from that until post-Jean, with Emma, only to be more recently dragged back into the mud and left there, IMO, pretty much unsavable, in the same way that Civil War, again, IMO, left Reed Richards and Tony Stark pretty much unsavable).AvX pretty much left every major player beyond redemption.
If Hal Jordan was redeemed then NO ONE is beyond redemption...
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RE: HEAT haters.
I have to agree. I dislike Dan Dido's (gods it's hard to not intentionally misspell that name!) seeming hatred of Wally, Steph, and Cass. It's not even shelving the characters, it's the active hatred. Smallville was going to have a female 'nightwing' and Brian Q Miller (who I LOVED on Batgirl) was going to use Steph. Once that leaked, editorial clamped down and said it had to be Barbara. One of the (lame) defenses of regressing Babs was that Barbara Gordon was the most recognizable Batgirl because of other media. When it was pointed out that Wally was the most recognizable flash (because of JLU/Superman/Batman etc) and that Dick or Tim would be the most recognizable Robin (again, because of the media) they said that was different. (And don't get me started on the awesomeness of John Stewart in the alternate media) But I don't want him dead, or his family dead.
I admit to fantasizing once about chopping up Dan Didio and stuffing him into the DC break room refrigerator.
But I think your reasonable response is a much better model to follow.
(And let us make it absolutely clear, I would never condone violence toward anyone, especially for being a comic book creator one simply disagrees with. Even Dan Didio.)
I can understand--to an extent--some fans' rage. Our heroes are precious to us. The heroes we've had since childhood, the entities we look up to for what is right and good (or perhaps less so), all the more of a treasure we hold dear. When people change these heroes, kill them, tell us they don't exist, or just turn them into a person we don't recognize--it hurts. It feels like a piece of our childhood is being trampled upon by someone we don't even know, it tells us something we looked up to and prized is now irrelevant. It is sometimes far too easy to forget that these heroes are two dimensional drawings printed in pulp magazines for the easy, cheap amusement for the masses. It is far too easy to take these things too seriously, because sometimes, there is at least an aspect of them that is serious TO US.
Slightly tangenting, but for example:
When I was a little girl, many people told me, or at least implied, my best ambition was to be a wife and mother -- fine things to be indeed, but that they were my only respectable choices. I was informed through the world around me that women could not be necessarily what they wanted, and that they definitely could not be strong, or powerful, whether in a physical, mental, or social sense.
And then I saw Lynda Carter bound across the TV screen in her patriotic bathing suit. I saw her fighting bad guys, making criminals tell the truth--but also as Diana Prince, being a secret agent and investigating and deducting and solving problems cleverly--and being kind and loving and truthful all at the same time, and knowing that the kindness and the loving came part and parcel with the amazing strength and cleverness. This Wonder Woman was good and a hero in every sense of the word, and she showed me that as a little girl, I could dream and dare to be anything I wanted, that I DID have that strength inside me that others told me couldn't possibly exist in a female. That strength might not manifest in the ability to deflect bullets or lift a car, but a strength that ran much deeper, that could sustain me in all that I did and dared to do in my life.
It didn't matter that her outfit was a little silly or the enemies were a little goofy or the acting was a little wooden sometimes. That message rang through loud and clear, and truly helped me see what my potential could be, and that IS an precious and important thing.
So then when I see Wonder Woman carelessly written or rewritten, when I see her made cruel or violent (or her people the Amazons made cruel and violent), when I see her book tossed aside as unimportant while others as long-lived are celebrated (such as many years ago when Dan Didio said something to the effect that "we must honor our great heroes" by recognizing their prolific life and renumbering Action Comics, Batman, and Detective Comics to their original numbers while in the same breath refusing to do the same for Wonder Woman, despite her membership in the Big Three, saying that she didn't warrant the same attention--and then only renumbering her book after major outcry, to only reboot it along with everything else to #1 a year later).... or when I see people argue vehemently about whether she should wear pants or not surpass discussions of how say, her personality or abilities should be portrayed in a book or tv show... it really, deeply, deeply makes me very sad, and sometimes angry--because that little child in me who was informed by Wonder Woman about what strength in a woman really looked like is now told that, in effect, her hero is dead as she knows her, and that is simply heartbreaking.
Now, sure, rationally I know--characterization marches on, things cannot stay the same, different people have different visions and shouldn't be stopped from expressing them, and that yes, she is a fictional character, and that heck, the version that first inspired me is about as campy and disco as you can get. She still is and was my inspiration, and I don't think that's something that should be discounted.
I just have to remind myself that I still have my memories and I still have my DVDs and comic books from when she was the character I loved. That those things cannot be taken away from me by anyone, especially not a man I've never met.
But anyway, because there is frankly a deep emotional tie, I get the sadness and the rage that sometimes fuels nerd-rage. And a lot of times the things rooted to that run pretty deep and are not well-acknowledged when discussing stuff like this, which tends to lead to more angry discussions rather than finding resolution or at least closure.
Having such emotions does NOT make it okay, however, to threaten the lives of those connected to disrupting your hero-worship---however flippantly or jokingly.
And yes, giving the impression that people like that are listened to empowers that kind of dangerous behavior.
But I wonder as above if there's a way to acknowledge some of the deeper-seated emotions around our heroes that might help defuse some of this rage so better and more realistic and more civil, if not kinder, conversations can be had in future.
Sorry for rambling.
I know I'm aware it's not a reboot, however when you take Peter Parker out of Spider-man, I'm out.
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This won't last. Parker will be back.
As a short-term plotline, it's interesting. If it was intended as a permanent replacement, it would be pathetic.
And that's the rub. Even if the current writers / editors intend to maintain this new direction to their dying breath and pinky-swear on the grave of Jack Kirby himself that 'this change will last,' five years from now, Peter will be Spider-Man and wearing a red and blue costume, Xavier will be alive and in a wheelchair, Bruce will be Batman, Steve will be Captain America, the Hulk will be green, etc., etc.
Everything and anything that is seen as 'iconic' or 'part of the brand' or marketing the characters IP, will come back around, either all at once as part of a reboot, or drop by drop.
Uh, yeah. What I spoilered is an obvious "out" to get Peter back, and as fast as they need, if the new direction is not popular.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I agree with much DQ says. For me, my DC heroes were the Teen Titans.
Like I said elsewhere, Dick becoming Batman was like Wally becoming Flash. IT was a coming of age for them. (unfortunately Donna never could get out from Diana's shadow, and Garth as Tempest never took off.) Sure, I'm 40 now, so Dick becoming Batman didn't impact me as much as him becoming Nightwing.
I think what comics need is a turn over of new characters. Bruce may always be Batman, but two of his Robins went off and had successful series. Mayday Parker was popular because we got to see Peter and MJ grown up, and a new girl in the spandex. Buckey and Steve could both be Captain America (well, one would have to have a new shield) and we could have a book of dark gritty espionage Cap, and more heroic Cap. Kate and Clint are both in the Hawkeye book, etc. Carbon copy heroes won't work in the same universe (Alas, poor Donna!) But Barry, Wally, Bart, and Jay all accessed the Speed Force differently, Dick wasn't Bruce, etc. Some are going to live, some are going to fall into comic linbo, or die. Just like Eric and Thor weren't the same person, you could make a legacy hero who takes a new direction.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Uh, yeah. What I spoilered is an obvious "out" to get Peter back, and as fast as they need, if the new direction is not popular.An "out"? Or clues to the way they plan to bring him back from the start?
In my ideal world? Both.
If the story of SpOck becoming a hero is a good journey and popular, then Peter can rest in peace (until someone has a good story and he can return.) If it isn't well received, then Peter can come back. Heck, if Slott wants to keep SpOck and the fans want Peter back, write the return, and give Slott a mini-series to wrap up his SpOck ideas. Then you could have 616-restored Doc Ock meet (let's call the miniseries Earth-700) a redeemed Superior Spiderman down the line.
I'm calling Superior Spiderman right now. Here's what I think is going to happen. Spoiler Tagged in consideration of others.
Point: As we saw in the last issue of Amazing, the Octobot couldn't penetrate the armor that Otto had put on the PeterBody's skull. It could only beam the memories in to the brain, not transfer the actual consciousness.
Point: As Peter's spirit is still sticking around, for whatever reason (despite, as we saw in Amazing "having earned a rest") this means that Peter is still "Alive and Kicking" for certain intents and purposes related to other characters in the Marvel Universe.
Point: These certain characters have the ability to detect wayward or determined spirits simply by way of their mere presence in a room or their ties to a character. In other words, just by his association with SpOck, someone in the MU will be able to pick up on his presence.
Point: Despite having the memories of Peter Parker, SpOck is not Peter Parker. He can pretend all he wants, but he will never be able to completely manage all of Peter's mannerisms and idiosyncrasies. Someone - most likely MJ or Aunt May - will notice. And they will mention it to someone else, in passing or in confidence, and that someone else will have the necessary power and/or connections to start investigating on their own. I'd like to say that MJ or May will do the investigation, but lately, they haven't been written that way.
Conclusion: Sometime within the next 12 to 24 issues, someone will investigate the "strange goings on of Peter Parker" and will discover that it is really Otto Octavius, imbued with the memories and motivations of Peter Parker, and the following things will happen:
Item 1: There will be a big Hero Fight, where it will come out that SpOck is doing what he's doing in order to live up to - and surpass - the memory of the hero of Peter Parker. He will not be believed at first, and at least one person will ask "What's your game, Octavius?"
Item 2: Either Doctor Strange or Reed Richards (possibly Ghost Rider) will be called in to figure out if "something can't be done" regarding this situation. There will be talk of his "spirit" or his "essence" depending on who's doing the examination and how it is still lingering. However, because of the unique circumstances, there will also be "nothing I can do," as Peter's spirit left the body of its own free will after a job well done.
Item 3: Octavius, because he is now living up to the example of Peter and attempting to be a better hero, will look at all the people who love Peter and want him back, and who (now knowing who is really driving the body) will never trust him, will realize that the only thing he can do, and still be a hero is to give the body back and bring Peter back. He will therefore offer to sacrifice himself - give up the body - so that Peter can be "reborn." Peter is back in the body, Otto earns his redemption, and all is right in Spider-ville.
Optional Item 4: Somewhere in there, Mephisto or Dormammu gets ahold of Otto's spirit and offers him a chance to return as a Superior Villain, a villain to make Spider Man into the hero he "needs" to be. Doc Ock comes back, bigger and badder than ever. Because Spider Man needs his Sinister Six, after all.
At least that's my take.
Ok did some serious reading today...
1) Hulk 1-2... An interesting take with Banner embracing the green and job hunting so to speak. Mark Waid has been one of my favorites for his Flash run as well as Captain America. Can he be another Peter David? I don't know yet.
2) Captain America 1-2... So far so good here too. Enjoyable seeing him trapped in another dimension. Romita art sells a solid story, I loved his old Daredevil and Spidey stuff.
3) Thor 1-4... Wow. Really well written story. Thor was never a favorite of mine but this is good stuff.
4) Iron Man 1-5... Typical Robert Downey Jr. characterization. Not sure if this is a good thing, I can't help thinking that it's the easy way out of building a better, more interesting Tony Stark. Though the homage to Meredith while saving the drug dealer's daughter, and the sparing #13 lends itself away from the movie stark portrayal and more in line with my fonder Marvel Iron Man memories like when the dog Peanut was killed by Blacklash collateral damage way back when (only old people would remember that old scene). ;) Overall, I'm optimistic.
5) Uncanny Avengers 1-2... The idea behind this series makes so much sense. The Red Skull made himself a major player if his recent, umm... surgery sticks. He was always "B-List" to me. Interesting book.
6) New Avengers 1... Way too early to tell, but if it's the same as the first New Avengers series (at the least lineup-wise), it'll be ok.
7) Avengers 1-2... In a nutshell, Terrible. Don't get me wrong, I dig the movie lineup but only in the movies. The others rotating in and out later are also worthless for me. I never cared for Hyperion or his Squadron, don't see Sunspot and Cannonball as Avengers unless they rotate into Uncanny Avengers, and Manifold (who is this guy, looks like a younger Gateway) makes the classic Quinjet useless. The Ex Nihilo, Abyss and the Aleph droid guy seem like cool opponents despite the real cheesy names for such powerful beings.
All in all the solo books were great, but the team books not so much (loved Uncanny though).
IMHO, The Avengers only need two books at the maximum, one with the "classic-type" lineup like Cap, Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, maybe mixed in with the Wasp, Vision, Black Panther, etc. on occasion and The New Avengers where they would rotate out the lineup by including the other super popular heroes like Wolverine, Spider-Man, etc.
Uncanny will be the hybrid, bridge for the A and X books. Just my 2 cents, YMMV of course.
Tomorrow hopefully I'll have time to read Superior Spidey, Fantastic Four, FF and the X-Books. I'm excited about the FF books, and even Spidey, the X-Books, not so much. You have no idea of how big an X-Fan I was so it's hard to even post that. :/
Basically, If the X-Books are still a mess and I feel like I missed parts of the story by missing every other title past and present, I'm out. It will be the first time where I consider staying with the Marvel "standard" universe over my beloved X-Books of old. There are just too many damn mutants it looks like. I'm pessimistic about all things X these days.
/crosses fingers.
In closing, I'm 3/4 impressed with the new Marvel Now stuff.
Thanks for reading my mini-reviews/thoughts/opinions.
I think you'll like most of the X-Books, they have been pretty great lately. Well, X-Men sucked for all of its run.
Just finished...
1) Superior Spider-Man1....I was really not into The Octo-Spidey concept at first, so I predicted major "suckitude". I found myself enjoying the first issue despite it not being such an original concept (the mind swap). It will be kind of cool to see how much damage Otto does.
2) Fantastic Four 1-3... I was psyched for this because I was a huge fan of the famous Byrne/FF run where they explored the Negative Zone. It is a slow start though.
3) FF 1-2... I love Ant-Man and Medusa, She-Hulk too, Miss Thing has to go. And when the heck did they adopt all these kids? Who is the numbered Bentley clone kid? He talks like a junior Victor Von Doom. So far it's good, and I love the retro art style. Ms. Deering still has to go. :) Oh yeah, not a fan of Alex Power or the old Power Pack kids book way back.
I'll start the X-Books later tonight.
I hung on from 86ish X-men to Civil War. Seeing the X-men choose to remain neutral in one of the defining fights they have fought so many times because of stupid, sorry, editorial decisions was stomach turning. After that, I gave up on it and it seems I am not exactly missing anything worthwhile. Then Spidey had a vomitous Brand new day after the first really interesting changes to his universe made since the sixties, and that was out as well.
Perhaps it is for the best anyway. With these reboots and mucking things up again and again, perhaps there is an opportunity for someone who actually wanted to tell some interesting stories again. Perhaps that person will let people age, with all that that entails. I think that was one of the appealing things about Spider girl, there was a sense of time to it.
At this point, I am not looking back. Good riddance.
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I have a thousand assorted x-men titles from the 80's-90's (uncanny x-men, x-man, Excalibur, wolverine, new mutants, x-force, x-factor, and various miniseries cable, bishop, rogue, gambit, x-terminators) which I cannot for the life of me sell for even a dollar an issue. All the local dealers want them for free. I'm contemplating dumping them on a bunch of school kids.
Try to sell them in big packs on Ebay. It's a hassle to send the packages, but you can make at least some money back. Worked for me two times, when I had accumulated too many and I wanted to get rid of the chaff.
And Sissyl, Marvel never has rebooted anything.
I have a thousand assorted x-men titles from the 80's-90's (uncanny x-men, x-man, Excalibur, wolverine, new mutants, x-force, x-factor, and various miniseries cable, bishop, rogue, gambit, x-terminators) which I cannot for the life of me sell for even a dollar an issue. All the local dealers want them for free. I'm contemplating dumping them on a bunch of school kids.
I had the exact same issue. I even had straights runs like New Mutant 1-100, Uncanny 108-362, All Excalibur , All X-Factor vol 1, etc. I wound up dumping it all for a little under 1k this summer after finally finding a buyer. About 4000 books total which included 200+ issue runs of FF, Amazing, Surfer, Avengers, lotsa DC runs etc.
Sad day for me in general.
Problem is after talking about this with comic shop owners is that today's video game, action junkie age comic buyers don't care much for the older back issues. They seem to just like the flavor of the week mutants, any Dark antihero, ones named with "Dead", also movie canon seems to be enough for them.
Add to this the endless crossovers going through a bazillion x, a, or Bat titles at 3-4 bucks a pop and things get expensive as hell, leaving not much money to burn on back issues, IMHO.
That's my take on it.
Finished the rest of my Marvel books.
1) All-New X-Men 1-5... This book was excellent. I missed exactly what has been happening to Cyclops and the whole Avs.X thing but the book is good.
2) X-Men: Legacy 1-4... Utter Crap on every level. I was never a Legion fan but even this was sad
3) Cable and X-Force 1-3.... Decent. I know everyone except this Dr. Nemesis. The first story arc is fairly "meh". Hope it picks up. It's good to see Colossus, but he doesn't fit the roster. The others are fairly paramilitary in nature, Colossus is more X-Mennish and less Ramboey (yes I made up two words but the description fits) unless something happened to him during my years long hiatus from Marvel. Cable is still a self sacrificing jackass, so at least some things remain unchanged.
Overall X-Books IMHO...
1 win
1 loss
1 still in the third quarter.
Oh, so you didn't read X-Factor and Wolverine and the X-Men? Both are worth reading in their own way.
And, yes, All-New X-Men rocks. :)
I'm waiting for the new books only, like Savage Wolverine and a new X-Factor if they make one. I like jumping on points :)
I still can't get over how bad X-Men: Legacy was. If they named it properly "Legion" it would tank. The X in the name is probably the only thing selling it.
I actually found the latest issue pretty okay, but that is because I think Legion and Blindfold make a cute couple in their disfunctionality. ^^
Marvel is still relaunching some X-titles in the next weeks, as it happens, so you might want to keep an eye out for those. Uncanny X-Force, X-Men and Uncanny X-Men all get new number #1 issues. The three books actually all look pretty good.
And you are missing out if you are ignoring X-Factor, Peter David is writing very good character stories. Although he is kind of finishing off a long story arc at the moment, so I guess it is a bad jumping-on point.
I found Jean Grey's resurrection, solely so that they could use her in the new X-Factor title, similarly annoying. It messed with her characterization (and they ended up getting bored with her and killing her off again anyway) and it messed with Scott's characterization (and he didn't recover from that until post-Jean, with Emma, only to be more recently dragged back into the mud and left there, IMO, pretty much unsavable, in the same way that Civil War, again, IMO, left Reed Richards and Tony Stark pretty much unsavable).
Marvel's in the grip of deconstructionists who *HATE* the entire concept of superheroes or goodness or heroism in general, and want to tear it all down and make everyone not just flawed believable humans with the occasional feet of clay, but so gritty and damaged and totalitarian that the tagline 'great power, great responsibility' has been replaced with 'power corrupts, there's no such thing as heroes.'
DC's in the grip of an ascended fanboy who wants to recycle the stories of his youth, even if that means wiping out the thirty years of continuity (and characters, and character *development*) that has occured since then.
It's a great time to be a short term fan, who doesn't know or care who any of these characters are, and is pumped to see them beaten to the death by the Sentry or set on fire by Dr. Light. Not such a great time for long-term fans...
I agree totally. That's why I don't follow Marvel or DC anymore.