Hello
I am wanting to run an assimar archer (not a Divine Hunter).
I am concerned that a ranger will be too feat starved to allow me to take the Angelic Blood feat tree from the advanced race guide (4 feats by 13th level) and still be a good archer.
Does anyone see it as a problem as a ranger or should I go fighter for all the ranged feats?
Opinions and information is greatly appreciated.
The advantage a ranger has is being able to pickup feats without the prerequisite. The switch hitter a per treanmonk is a good way to get a very versatile character because if you opponent gets into melee you drop the bow and fight in with a two handed weapon.
All you need outside of your ranger bonus feats are power attack, quick draw and deadly aim. You don't need point blank shot, or precise shot because if they are that close you switch to a melee weapon. Weapon focus is good but not absolutely needed especially at early levels.
To me the delay of your ranger abilities is not worth the extra feats. Not having instant enemy for two levels huge disadvantage.
I was wanting to use the switch hitter, but thought that since the majority of my feats for levels would be for my racial feat chain, it would be to much to overcome as a ranger.
I want the skills and abilities of a ranger, but I need the missile capabilities more.
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Either class will have to overcome significant drawbacks in order to do both.
Ranger: doesn't have room to fit in 4 non-archery feats while also not being human and getting the human bonus feat.
Fighter: you may have feats to spare but you don't get Improved Precise Shot until level 11. This means that if your GM follows the rules for ranged attacks you will be eating a -4 to your attacks for 11 levels in a large percentage of combat (presuming the adventure will be taking place indoors, in dungeons, or in other non-wide open places).
Is this limited to fighter or ranger? Have you considered becoming a Zen Archer monk? I understand you may not like that class, but it's worth a bid from an archer perspective.
Plenty of archery bonus feats and allows you to take the feats gained by levels down the Aasimar path.
With a straight ranger you should be able to pick up all the core feats you want. Use Ranger bonus feats for rapid shot, many shot and improved precise shot. Use your normal feats to pick up power attack, deadly aim and quick draw in that order. Your 7th through 11th will get your Angelic feats by 11th level. Pump STR as high as you can.
If you are looking at the Ranger for all the ranger abilities the Zen Archer is going to come up short. If on the other hand you are looking for a pure archer with some decent scouting skills it is worth a look. In pure damage after 3rd level they end up doing even more than a pure fighter. The fighter starts to pull ahead around 10th to 11th level, but not by much. They also have the advantage that even before they get point blank master they can still attack in melee even while wielding a bow.
What you need to do for a good Zen Archer is pump both STR and WIS. DEX should not be dumped but only needs to be about 12-14. This means the first 3 levels are painful, but after 3rd they take off.
With a straight ranger you should be able to pick up all the core feats you want. Use Ranger bonus feats for rapid shot, many shot and improved precise shot. Use your normal feats to pick up power attack, deadly aim and quick draw in that order. Your 7th through 11th will get your Angelic feats by 11th level. Pump STR as high as you can.
If you are looking at the Ranger for all the ranger abilities the Zen Archer is going to come up short. If on the other hand you are looking for a pure archer with some decent scouting skills it is worth a look. In pure damage after 3rd level they end up doing even more than a pure fighter. The fighter starts to pull ahead around 10th to 11th level, but not by much. They also have the advantage that even before they get point blank master they can still attack in melee even while wielding a bow.
What you need to do for a good Zen Archer is pump both STR and WIS. DEX should not be dumped but only needs to be about 12-14. This means the first 3 levels are painful, but after 3rd they take off.
Yep. Zen Archer after 3rd level with a +STR composite bow is a beast. Especially when you have one with the "adaptive" property. And, yes, you won't get the functionality of a ranger as far as spells, tracking, favored enemies, and favored terrain.
I may have read into this wrong, are you wanting THOSE ranger abilities, or simply the "I get all this archery stuff for free" feats and abilities that the archery ranger gets?
Because if you're looking to have a stealthy scout, your real quandry would be between Ranger and Zen Archer, not Fighter. As Mysterious Stranger says above, Zen Archer is slow for the first few levels, but then, oh gosh can he make things into a pincushion! And, an Aasimar with flight capabilities makes him an excellent sniper.
I may have read into this wrong, are you wanting THOSE ranger abilities, or simply the "I get all this archery stuff for free" feats and abilities that the archery ranger gets?
I like Ranger for the extras; skills, terrain, enemy, etc. It is more important to be a better archer than a ranger though.
Truthfully, I had not thought of the Zen Archer, I knew they could put more arrows in the air than the others but I thought they lack the damage out put of the ranger for his special enemies and the fighter with his weapon specs.
I may have read into this wrong, are you wanting THOSE ranger abilities, or simply the "I get all this archery stuff for free" feats and abilities that the archery ranger gets?I like Ranger for the extras; skills, terrain, enemy, etc. It is more important to be a better archer than a ranger though.
Truthfully, I had not thought of the Zen Archer, I knew they could put more arrows in the air than the others but I thought they lack the damage out put of the ranger for his special enemies and the fighter with his weapon specs.
Flurry should compensate for the lack of bonuses, especially for favored enemies. Favored bonuses are situational, where the flurry dice are constant. If your primary concern is to be an archer, I'd say take fighter out of the mix and decide between Ranger and Zen Archer.
Actually Zen Archer does get weapon specialization with the bow as a bonus feat which is why until a fighter gets greater weapon specialization and weapon training the Zen Archer is out damaging him. They also get point blank master and a couple of other bonus feats. Since the flurry with the bow does not work with rapid or many shot you don't have to worry about that. You will get the same number if not more attacks than a fighter.
Like I said from about 3rd to about 10th level the Zen Archer is probably the strongest archer in the game. The first 3 levels can be painful though because you will not have a very high DEX so you chance to hit is not going to be as high as the fighter. By 6th level you will have weapon focus, weapon specialization and point blank master with your bow. You will also have three other bonus feats which will probably be precise shot, improve precise shot and probably combat reflexes. You will want deadly aim so this will leave you with 2 unspent feats of your choice.
If you are going for a Zen Archer don't dip with the other classes. You slow down your flurry with the bow and you gaining your bonus feats. Remember your DEX is going to be much lower than a normal archer so even with the extra feats you may not qualify for them.
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Zen Archer actually gets so many of the feats needed for free (as bonus feats or class features) that it is probably the only archer build that will let you take all of those other feats by 13th level.
If you want skills just don't dump INT
Consider the trait Wisdom in the Flesh - it lets you take a DEX, CON, or STR skill as a class skill and use your WIS modifier (disable device is good for a Rogueish build). WIS should be your highest stat.
Thank you everyone.
I think your help has been invaluable to my choice. After looking through the zen archer with the points you all used, I think that is the way I am going to go for my character.
Once again thanks for the advice.
Necro... bump.
If you are allowed to use 3rd party stuff, I highly recommend the Serene Barbarian. It is flavored toward non-chaotic rather than any non-lawful, but the text doesn't specifically let you out of the restriction. If your DM won't let you, you can take the Aasimar racial trait that allows you to take Monk levels with a NG or N alignment.
Serene Barbarian swaps out Rage for Serenity. Instead of the +4 STR and CON for Rage, Serenity gives you +4 DEX and WIS. Absolutely perfect for the ZAM. It also has the advanced BAB and the extra fast movement to make up for skipping a level (or two) of the ZAM. A second level of Barbarian gives you a rage power (plus another +1 for BAB and Uncanny Dodge). Take Scent and use Pheromone Arrows. A target marked with a Pheromone arrow gives a creature with Scent +2 attack and damage against the marked target. After just two levels, you are +6 to attack while in Serenity (raging).
If you want to get really crazy, you could add a level of Empyreal Sorcerer to give you spellcasting ability to buff your shots even more. Gravity Bow is a first level spell that ups your arrow size by one category. That takes a longbow arrow from 1d8 to 2d6 (avg +2/ max +4) per arrow. Combined with flurry this makes a difference. You give up BAB for one level, but make up for it with spell buffs. Take Magic Weapon to make up for the the lost BAB if you want. Empyreal lets you cast using your WIS stat and if you take the Magical Knack trait, you gain +2 caster levels.
Dipping Inquisitor could give you Ranger like abilities and at level 2 lets you add WIS to initiative. Most people say not to water down your ZAM with dips, but teamwork feats, Judgements, and Bane against whatever you want (lvl 5) aren't too bad either.
Choose wisely and have fun with it.