There are 6 general questions to answer concerning the elements of casting... Those elements are
- Which type of spells am I casting
- How many spells can i cast per day
- How do i learn spells
- How many can i learn
- Do I have to prepare them in advance
- Which attribute provides the bonus to the casting
In every other way a gestalt is supposed to take the best of 2 like options... So each of these questions is handled independently...
If my hit dice for a barbarian fighter is d12 and d10.. thats d22! no no no... best of the two not both...
so you just figure out which one would be higher (based on your level and your attributes) and thats what you get!
Some combination examples...
- In the case of a cleric/wizard that would be arcane and divine and never the two shall meet. They have to be handled independently
- Same with sorcerer/oracle or any combinations like these...
- How many spells per day? well lets see.
- How do i learn my spells? Again divine and arcane should be handled separately but if its a sorcerer/wizard or cleric/oracle combo then just choose which one works best for you.
- How many can i learn? Sorcerer has a limit where wizard does not... I presume your character is smart enough to know which option is the better one in this case...
- Do I have to prepare them in advance... Nobody wants to if they can avoid it, but if you went and chose two classes that both have to prepare in advance then no choice for you.
- Which attribute for bonuses? Wizard uses int, sorcerer uses cha... again. you dont get both... pick one and stick to it.
My personal build for our campaign is a summoner/wizard so the questions work out as follows.
- What kind of spells are they? Both arcane... Easy peasy.
- How many do i cast per day? Definitely not added... take the best of the two, which changes on a level by level and spell level by spell level basis as i advance.
- How do i learn spells? A summoner can learn 2 per level through osmosis when he levels... A wizard gets 2 at leveling also so i'd get 2 either way, but I can also learn more spells by using spellbooks and scrolls.
- How many can I learn? Summoner would be restricted but wizard is not... I choose not restricted.
- Do I have to prepare them in advance? Wizard does but summoner does not. I choose not.
- Which attribute provides the bonus to casting? I chose charisma but again you'd just have to make the decision for yourself.
All the advantages, none of the disadvantages, but at the end of the day i still have weak saves, low hit points, and cant cast more spells per day than i could as either other class.
It's not super overpowered until you start to think of my eidolon, but from the sounds of it they notoriously become underpowered the higher level you get since their hit dice aren't 1:1 with the caster.
Thoughts?
So... you don't allow a Cleric|Wizard to cast the number of spells per day they're entitled to... but you do allow a Bard/Wizard to learn as many spells as a Wizard and cast any of them spontaneously?
No spellcaster can ever really be considered "crippled", but this is a major nerf to the most iconic spellcaster combinations and an absolutely outrageous boost to the power of other combinations.
No the way we run it is if you have a cleric wizard you keep their spells per day separate.
They've got arcane spells per day and they've got divine spells per day and those numbers don't go down. Like I said. The first rule is if the classes arent arcane/arcane or divine/divine then the spells have nothing to do with each other and are handled separately.
But if you're trying to be a sorcerer wizard the advantages you get from being an infinite learning, no preparation ahead of time kind of caster is a huge advantage already. Giving you twice as many spells per day is just overkill, and when other 'like' numbers don't get added (like hit dice or skill points) then why would we suddenly decide to treat spells per day differently.
Our GM is afraid that being able to fire off 100 spells per day with no preparation and infinite variety may be overpowered... I happen to agree. There's no reason to have such power. How long would it take to cast all those spells anyway... Whats the point.
So thats how we run things. I offer it so that other GMs who are deathly afraid of dual arcane or dual divine gestalts may have a different way to combine the two that doesnt freak them out...
As a GM and a player when I go to make a build I always am careful to remember to stay within the spectrum of whats cool enough for me and whats so badass that the gm is going to want to crush me in a battle of escalation which he will always win.
Isn't that what these boards are for?
This is the solution we use at my table and I offer it up so others might use it, build on it, or call it just plain silly.
I think I'd rather contend with a regular Wizard/Sorcerer without these special rules than with your special Wizard/Summoner who gets a full Eidolon, all of the Summon Monster SLA's, and can cast spontaneously from the entire wiz/sorc spell list with wizard casting progression.
No the way we run it is if you have a cleric wizard you keep their spells per day separate...
But if you're trying to be a sorcerer wizard the advantages you get from being an infinite learning, no preparation ahead of time kind of caster is a huge advantage already...
That sounds backwards. You're keeping the lists separate for two spellcasting classes, but merging them together for two others?
Doesn't it make a lot more sense to say:
'Here's your Wizard spells. You have this many per day, and prepare them in advance, via what you have in your spellbook.'
'Here's your Sorcerer spells. You have this many per day, this many known, and you can cast them as needed.'
I was under the impression that's how regular Gestalt worked in the first place. Multiclassing too, actually.
Edit for a bit of a continuation:
...Giving you twice as many spells per day is just overkill, and when other 'like' numbers don't get added (like hit dice or skill points) then why would we suddenly decide to treat spells per day differently.
Because they aren't 'like' numbers. They are the Class Features of those classes. Class features are added together from what I understand, yes? You get them from both classes, one doesn't override the other? As opposed to the Hit points and skill points that every class gets as they level, which it makes sense to just take the better of.
In your system Wizard/Sorcerer is at a disadvantage to pretty much any Wizard/(spontaneous 2/3rd or 1/3rd arcane caster) because you get better extra abilities.
That encourages more interesting gestalt builds, I like.
This does mean a Cleric/Inquisitor can cast any spell from either list at any time right? Talk about choice paralysis.
Or the better version of that'd be Oracle/Paladin, awesome at combat and any spell on a whim.
Exactly... While a gestalt cleric inquisitor being able to cast no less than 8 spells per day by level 3 using the old rules and grossly more if they have even a single attribute bonus towards spells... instead its just whichever would have been better separately. Its still as good as either one separately, but its not 'double'...
With no attribute bonuses you'd be casting no less than 34 spells per day. Who does that? I cant tell you how bogged down our campaigns would be if i were cranking out 34 unprepared spells per day.
Everyone up to this point believes in Darkwolf's way of thinking about gestalts. I'm saying
1:everybody thinks thats too powerful
2:who needs that many spells per day anyway
3:you're still plenty powerful without it
4:arcane spells per day and arcane spells per day ARE the exact same thing so it should be a which one is best not an add them together kinda thing.
Like i say. Just our tables thoughts on the matter and its been a lot of fun to play.
I think I'd rather contend with a regular Wizard/Sorcerer without these special rules than with your special Wizard/Summoner who gets a full Eidolon, all of the Summon Monster SLA's, and can cast spontaneously from the entire wiz/sorc spell list with wizard casting progression.
In regards particularly to the summoner/wizard build i'm running we still stick to the rule that you can only have one summon out at a time, so its either my eilodon or a different summon but not both... Just so you know...
Also since I don't have twice as many spells it means i'm not able to bring any more summons on to the field as either a regular wizard or sorcerer or summoner could.
In terms of how many summons i can have out i'm in no way more powerful than any of the regular builds... Its not raining firetoads...
Thats why this technique isnt as scary as the other dualcaster gestalts and why I mention it.
While a gestalt cleric inquisitor being able to cast no less than 8 spells per day by level 3 using the old rules and grossly more if they have even a single attribute bonus towards spells...
10 is not "grossly more" than 8.
So if you're so terrified of having two spellcasting progressions then why have you set it up so that, for example, Sorcerer/Clerics still get their full set of double spells per day? Why is it just Cleric/Inquisitors that are broken?
I'm in no way more powerful than any of the regular builds... I just have more choices.
I'm not sure you quite understand why wizards are powerful.
While a gestalt cleric inquisitor being able to cast no less than 8 spells per day by level 3 using the old rules and grossly more if they have even a single attribute bonus towards spells...10 is not "grossly more" than 8.
So if you're so terrified of having two spellcasting progressions then why have you set it up so that, for example, Sorcerer/Clerics still get their full set of double spells per day? Why is it just Cleric/Inquisitors that are broken?
The first reason is semantics: Sorcerer spells and cleric spells have 2 completely different flavors and are provided to the character in 2 completely different ways... A god isnt going to give you wizard spells and you cant just pull a cleric spell out of the power of your id... Since the types of spells literally have nothing to do with each other they are in fact 'not the same number' the way arcane and arcane or divine and divine would be.
The second reason is application: If you're planning on being an x/cleric build he knows you're going to be the healer so having a clerics worth of healing spells and still being able to be a mage isnt 'too many spells per day'. You're just doing both jobs which is what playing a gestalt is all about.
Do you allow a fighter/wizard to get the bonus feats from both classes? Shouldn't they just take the better one?
I don't see a problem with wizard/sorcerer builds, they should get both spell casting progressions, but maintained separately. Only sorcerer slots can be used to cast spells known from the sorcerer class.
They're already missing out on improving their HD, skill points, BAB and saves.
10 is not "grossly more" than 8.
Imagine how many spells a cleric inquisitor can throw out if he 'optimized' his spells per day attributes. by the time he hit level 10. Its just a metric ton of spells. And at least at our table thats the dividing line between being able to gestalt arcane/arcane or arcane/divine or divine/divine at our table...
Perhaps other GMs feel similarly.
Do you allow a fighter/wizard to get the bonus feats from both classes? Shouldn't they just take the better one?
As it turns out we do handle it that way... If you hit a level where your fighter is supposed to get a feat and your wizard is supposed to get a feat, you don't get 2. you get 1.
So yes. They just get one.
The second reason is application: If you're planning on being an x/cleric build he knows you're going to be the healer so having a clerics worth of healing spells and still being able to be a mage isnt 'too many spells per day'. You're just doing both jobs which is what playing a gestalt is all about.
How do you know that the cleric//X is going to use the cleric side of things primarily for healing as opposed to buffs/debuffs/summons/etc?
Do you allow a fighter/wizard to get the bonus feats from both classes? Shouldn't they just take the better one?As it turns out we do handle it that way... If you hit a level where your fighter is supposed to get a feat and your wizard is supposed to get a feat, you don't get 2. you get 1.
So yes. They just get one.
This is less like gestalting and more like a complex multiclass.
So wouldn't you just pick thebest class features from any level? Like a cleric/paladin would have to choose, better casting, or divine health. They're both class features and you only get one.
You're supposed to get all the features of both classes normally, and spells are listed as features.
1:everybody thinks thats too powerful
2:who needs that many spells per day anyway
3:you're still plenty powerful without it
4:arcane spells per day and arcane spells per day ARE the exact same thing so it should be a which one is best not an add them together kinda thing.
So... you think having more spells per day is a bigger difference in power than having no restriction on your list of spells known and being able to cast any of them spontaneously?
I'm... confused on your reasoning on that?
How do you know that the cleric//X is going to use the cleric side of things primarily for healing as opposed to buffs/debuffs/summons/etc?
They actually can... But if there's no healing left and somebody dies... It wasnt the smartest thing your character did... Or someone else in the party has taken over healing duties with their gestalt build.
This is less like gestalting and more like a complex multiclass.
Thats probably an acurate assessment... its keeping the power out of the stratosphere so that you can have the fun combination without destroying the campaign. Giving you a way to combine these kind of things without your GM saying 'nuke it from orbit'
So... you think having more spells per day is a bigger difference in power than having no restriction on your list of spells known and being able to cast any of them spontaneously?I'm... confused on your reasoning on that?
Oh no. I'm not saying one is bigger or smaller than the other.
I'm saying they're both pretty big, so why do you need both advantages?Would you rather cast twice as many spells per day and have to memorize some and not memorize others or would you rather have a sorcerers number of spells per day and a wizards extended repertoire...
I landed definitively on the side of the latter, and the former seems to have a history of making gms squeamish.
We found the best method for controlling difficulty is to make the adventuring day longer.
I like the method in 13th Age, you only get credit for resting after four combats. It makes it easy for the GM to pace adventures and players know they can't nova on the first combat and might need to save some of their resources for later.
At a high level gestalt campaign, we had to push through an entire adventure once without resting in character. I think we did around 8-10 combats.
Imagine how many spells a cleric inquisitor can throw out if he 'optimized' his spells per day attributes. by the time he hit level 10. Its just a metric ton of spells. And at least at our table thats the dividing line between being able to gestalt arcane/arcane or arcane/divine or divine/divine at our table...
Perhaps other GMs feel similarly.
What's stopping an arcane/divine dualcaster from doing the same thing? Sorcerer/Oracle or Empyreal Sorcerer/Cleric also have only one casting stat, and they get far more spells per day than a Cleric/Inquisitor.
As it turns out we do handle it that way... If you hit a level where your fighter is supposed to get a feat and your wizard is supposed to get a feat, you don't get 2. you get 1.
So yes. They just get one.
And I suppose fighter/alchemists need to choose between taking a Discovery or a bonus feat each even level?
It's amazing how every new thing I learn about your gestalt rules makes it clear that they're even worse than I previously suspected.
They actually can... But if there's no healing left and somebody dies... It wasnt the smartest thing your character did... Or someone else in the party has taken over healing duties with their gestalt build.
And that's why nobody who plays a cleric in normal games ever casts any spells other than Cure X Wounds! :V
And clearly when most people think gestalt casters they're not thinking either or... they're thinking BOTH!
Double the spells AND double the repertoire AND no preparation muahahahahah! Which clearly sends everyone running for the hills.
It might sound fun to play but if nobody will let you play it then lets talk about doing it some other way.
Oh no. I'm not saying one is bigger or smaller than the other.
I'm saying they're both pretty big, so why do you need both advantages?
Would you rather cast twice as many spells per day and have to memorize some and not memorize others or would you rather have a sorcerers number of spells per day and a wizards extended repertoire...I landed definitively on the side of the latter, and the former seems to have a history of making gms squeamish.
But you don't normally get both advantages. Normally, the spell lists would be kept separate. You wouldn't be able to mix the wizard spell list into the sorc's spontaneous casting.
I think your choice of going with the mixed casting kind of speaks to how much more useful it is. Which makes it seem very odd that, if more spells per day make your GM's squeamish, I can't understand how/why this would be a better solution.
What's stopping an arcane/divine dualcaster from doing the same thing? Sorcerer/Oracle or Empyreal Sorcerer/Cleric also have only one casting stat, and they get far more spells per day than a Cleric/Inquisitor.
Not a darn thing. Sorcerer oracle is a fantastic example of going full bore spells per day and keeping your repertoire tiny. You've chosen spells per day as your focus not variety.
Good on you.And I suppose fighter/alchemists need to choose between taking a Discovery or a bonus feat each even level?
Indeed! You're getting good at this!
It's amazing how every new thing I learn about your gestalt rules makes it clear that they're even worse than I previously suspected.
I agree. Its amazing how good we are at making things interesting instead of creating the four horsemen of the apocalypse...
And that's why nobody who plays a cleric in normal games ever casts any spells other than Cure X Wounds! :V
Now you're just being snerky.
But you don't normally get both advantages. Normally, the spell lists would be kept separate. You wouldn't be able to mix the wizard spell list into the sorc's spontaneous casting.
I think your choice of going with the mixed casting kind of speaks to how much more useful it is. Which makes it seem very odd that, if more spells per day make your GM's squeamish, I can't understand how/why this would be a better solution.
More spells per day only makes the gm afraid if i'm already getting the combination of no preparation infinite choices... (arcane/arcane or divine/divine)
If you went oracle sorcerer you might be able to cast a huge number of spells per day which he doesnt like, but there are a lot less spells to choose from, so he's ok with it.
Not a darn thing. Sorcerer oracle is a fantastic example of going full bore spells per day and keeping your repertoire tiny. You've chosen spells per day as your focus not variety.
Good on you.
Okay... On the same note then, are you saying that they wouldn't get the full progression of spells known instead? At Sorc/Oracle 1, do they only have 2 first level spells known, divided between the two of them? And what happens if they take 2 Arcane spells, are their divine slots worthless?
Indeed! You're getting good at this!
This kind of just made me cringe. Are you kidding?
Edit:
More spells per day only makes the gm afraid if i'm already getting the combination of no preparation infinite choices... (arcane/arcane or divine/divine)
But again... you normally don't do that, anyway.
Okay... On the same note then, are you saying that they wouldn't get the full progression of spells known instead? At Sorc/Oracle 1, do they only have 2 first level spells known, divided between the two of them? And what happens if they take 2 Arcane spells, are their divine slots worthless?
Since sorcerer is arcane and oracle is divine, you keep them separate so you get both. 2 arcane spells and 2 divine spells. You in fact still use the tables of both sorcerer and oracle for 'number of spells known' just as you always would have... This is the maximum spells minimum variety build...
Indeed! You're getting good at this!This kind of just made me cringe. Are you kidding?
Yes. I'm kidding on this one. A feat and a discovery are 2 different things even if they happen to occur at the same levels.
But again... you normally don't do that, anyway.
Exacly. He'd hate it if I did, so using our rules we don't. He's happy with it so he lets us play it instead of nuking it from orbit.
And clearly when most people think gestalt casters they're not thinking either or... they're thinking BOTH!
Double the spells AND double the repertoire AND no preparation muahahahahah! Which clearly sends everyone running for the hills.
It might sound fun to play but if nobody will let you play it then lets talk about doing it some other way.
This would apply to a Sorcerer/Sorcerer, but most of the time I've seen you're not allowed to take the same class twice.
With Wizard/Sorcerer, the spell lists, and spells per day are kept separate. You can't use wizard slots to cast sorcerer spells, unless they are also in your spell book and you prepare it like normal.... like all your other wizard spells.
Does my Oracle/Paladin get to cast those under leveled Paladin spells at level 1?
Not having to make any choices about knowing or preparing situationly awesome spells like Lesser Restoration, Ghostbane Dirge or Grace (and getting them 3 or 4 levels early) is pretty serious.
Also who cares if you can cast 1000 spells per day, there are only so many combat rounds to cast them in.
Good call!
I'd say with oracle you get the 'no preparation, small quantity bit which now applies to paladin spells and also would allow you to take a 1st level paladin spell at first level since you can both cast first level spells and have access to paladin spells from being a paladin...
This would apply to a Sorcerer/Sorcerer, but most of the time I've seen you're not allowed to take the same class twice.
With Wizard/Sorcerer, the spell lists, and spells per day are kept separate. You can't use wizard slots to cast sorcerer spells, unless they are also in your spell book and you prepare it like normal.... like all your other wizard spells.
I agree. If such combinations are ever allowed to be played this is how it is most often allowed to be played. I simply offer another alternative that gms might like...
Certain gms would say you still have to wait until you could normally take a paladin spell to choose one but you'd still be able to cast it without preparation so thats nice. I wouldnt be opposed to this. If I brought this one up to my GM he's probably make me wait.
The reason we even came up with this was in fact because our gm didnt want to do the 'keep em separate' thing...
At first he said 'no gestalt casters period'
When i asked him why he said well that means you have some zero prep spells and you've got some spellbook prep spells. You gotta keep track of which one is which, I gotta keep track of the fact you're not cheating so I gotta keep track of which one is which...
Me; but i dont want to keep them separate. I want to be able to learn all the spells, and i dont want to prep them in advance...
GM: and cast twice as many.
Me: no. why would you cast twice as many... arcane spells per day is a 'best of either' not additive. Like hit dice or skillpoints right? why would you add them?
GM: normally when you gestalt casters you keep em separate and cast twice as many.
Me: yeah. i dont need to cast twice as many...
And so he let me hash out how all the freaky combinations would work and he's willing to let us run them... I bring my efforts to the forums because I haven't heard anything like it before and found nothing like it in my searches.
It seems like most people prefer the more spells per day and I dont happen to be one of those.
The GM and most GMs and myself all agree that (infinite variety+no prep+twice as many per day' is too much power, but 'infinite variety+no prep' (wizard/sorcerer)is not so bad, and twice as many isnt bad as long as its limited variety (sorcerer/oracle). wizard cleric is infinite variety and twice as many, but now you're back to having to prep everything...
Variety, No prep time, double quantity
pick any two, but no picking all three
My way definitely leaves less to keep track of both for me and for him.
It gets tricky and annoying again once you start doing things like wizard/oracle since some oracle spells are also wizard spells and suddenly he's back to having to keep track again, but nobody at our table wants the hassle of keeping two separate spell lists either.
Basically our whole table hates the idea of 'keep em separate' so nobody does wizard/oracle or cleric/sorcerer because you basically havent saved anyone any effort. Some are prep some arent, some are divine some arent... those would be the hassle combinations.
Yeah. The whole reason he let me run with the idea is because of all the people at the table i'm the one least likely to go uber-jaeger destructo pain in his butt. I'm not trying to find a way to armageddon his campaign or ruin his day.
As a GM i'm trying to find the balanced answer that is both fun to play and not so overpowered that a GM wants to shut you down or do that horrible 'escalation of power where you always lose' thing, so when he said 'no dualcasters' instead of saying ok, I said why not, and have gone to great lengths to sort out how i'd handle it. Turns out we've found a version of that balance at our table and it's been more fun than if we'd have just said 'fine, no dualcasters.'
Truth be told i've been playing D+D way longer than anyone else at our table, just less pathfinder than anyone else at our table. Sometimes the advantage of being a noob is seeing it with fresh eyes. And these eyes are way more attuned to 'what is cool' than 'how can i kill a city in one punch' and so in a game where the world dualcaster basically opens up the door to a sorcerer/synthesis summoner and makes everyone go "please god no, I'll take RageLanceFlurryPounce any day!" we in fact have a dualcaster that everybody thinks works out pretty well.
At our table at least.
I don't honestly see a dualcasting Gestalt as any more ridiculous than some other Gestalt combo, aside from what casters are capable of in the first place. At later levels, I don't think the spells per day limit is the bigger issue, but mixing infinite spell list with spontaneous casting seems like it would get rather broken.
But eh, to each their own, I guess.
When i asked him why he said well that means you have some zero prep spells and you've got some spellbook prep spells. You gotta keep track of which one is which, I gotta keep track of the fact you're not cheating so I gotta keep track of which one is which...
Me; but i dont want to keep them separate. I want to be able to learn all the spells, and i dont want to prep them in advance...
Yeah, that part is over powered, but that's because you're taking the best of class abilities and applying them to a different classes abilities, when they're supposed to be independent.
It be like going Fighter/Wizard and saying that because they both get bonus feats, anytime you get a bonus feat you can choose from either list, then using all your fighter feats to pick up meta-magic feats.
It be like going Fighter/Wizard and saying that because they both get bonus feats, anytime you get a bonus feat you can choose from either list, then using all your fighter feats to pick up meta-magic feats.
Truth be told I bet our gm would allow that. As a gm I would allow that.
Now try making a special house-rule to allow that, then complaining that it's overpowered and your players are cheaters, and then making a second special house-rule to balance it out by making it still allowed but removing Weapon Training and Armor Training.
I dunno. I can't see a problem with it but i play more for style than for punch.
I'm sure theres a way to make that annoying and ungodly.
I just don't care. If you can only have fun dragon punching the planet then you're not at my table.
Matter of fact our gm may already have allowed it. I took exotic weapon katana as a first level feat with my summoner wizard... I don't know if thats RAW, but the GM didn't care. No doubt its less than optimal, but I spent 20 years playing rifts... We've combined occ and rcc so much that I've had players roll up a mutant godling... A godling, but a mutated one... I've been to the far reaches of overpowered and on the other side of that is boredom.
And that's why your GM needs to micromanage your character's spell selections to make sure you're not cheating.
Thats exactly what i'm talking about. He doesnt think he has to for me. He worries that he'll have to for everyone else at the table who's only ever played pathfinder and thinks the only way to play is to OPTIMIZE!
Optimize is just what powergamers call themselves so they dont have to call themselves powergamers. So many conversations and forums and collections of forums about how to one shot a balrog or become the worlds best tripper and how being less than optimal is wasting your party's time... Those are the conversations I saw on MMO boards. I've never seen so many powergamer posts.
Its the conversations I had when I was 12. Now theres this everlapping one up war not just table to table but forum to forum on how do i make myself badder than the baddest of the bad. Lets create a library of all the baddest of the bad we've ever created. Gamers trying to build the most indomitable crazy and gms trying to make houserules to dial them back.
I'm not telling people how to run their games, and i'm not even saying there arent a few people gaming like that at our table... I'm just not one of them. And we have to go to really great lengths to keep that kinda culture outta our game. My gm is cautious allowing the things I want because the rest of the table will take advantage of the changes in the most meta mega way possible.
I basically blame rifts and 3.0/3.5 and mmos equally for this.
Rifts said lets play a game with no limits
3.0/3.5 taught you that the best way to build a character was to start at level 20 and work your way backward because if you didnt hit your prerequisites in exactly the right order you couldnt become the prestige class you wanted to be, and if you didnt know where you wanted to end up ahead of time you'd never be able to become anything 'cool'
MMO's taught people that I shouldn't be wasting my time unless everyone in my party is as uber as they can possibly be.
The ones that didnt like this trend all went to warhammer because they wanted to get back to the kind of gaming thats 'storming the beaches of normandy with a spoon'
The last warhammer campaign I played went even further. We started out chained naked to a sinking ship. Storming the beaches of normandy with a spoon was being to generous. Too montyhaul... Lets try storming the beaches of normandy WITHOUT your spoon! Or your shirt. Or freedom of movement. And you're drowning. And the clock is ticking...
I hate both extremes equally but I tell ya. Finding that happy middle just seems to be the hardest thing anymore.
...and that's why I hate those optimizing powergamer MMO-addicted children who are nowhere near as mature as I am.
Anyhow, back to the story of how I convinced my GM to let me spont-cast the entire arcane spell list...
It's okay if I do it because it's for roleplaying reasons, my character concept is literally being god.
Well two days ago I really used to like how your snerk included class but somehow you're running 100% snerk today. I'm not sure what happened but hey. Thanks for your input.
So far i'm level 3 in this build and I have 15 hit points. I almost died from a fall, but if you call that God then maybe warhammer is the game for you
I know I shouldnt bite every time you wave a carrot in front of me. I guess I have a weakness for succubus.
Breaking News. Someone else's houserules are different then my own. Film at eleven.