When dualwielding do you get half your dex modifier to damage on the offhand just like with standard two weapon fighting, or full?
When dualwielding do you get half your dex modifier to damage on the offhand just like with standard two weapon fighting, or full?
As written, half. As far as I understand, the feat just changes all the STR rules to use DEX instead. Also, I don't know where it was but I THINK I read that Jason Buhlman said it's intended that it still only apply to finessable weapons, so no using dual-scimitars with Dex. But, as I said, I can't give you a link to the quote, so I could be wrong.
This is the character I'm asking about. Just started playing way of the wicked as the playtest came out and decided to incorporate mythic. My GM allowed me to use double slice, but as written that feat says you get full STR bonus to offhand attacks so that got me thinking if you even get half DEX bonus on offhand attacks.
Timett
Male Human Mythic Tier (Trickster) 1 Rogue 4
NE Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +9
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +5 Dex)
hp 58 (4d8+20)
Fort +8, Ref +10 (+1 bonus vs. traps.), Will +4; +2 trait bonus vs. charm and compulson
Defensive Abilities evasion, trap sense, uncanny dodge
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Masterwork Shortsword +8 (1d6+5/19-20/x2) and
Masterwork Shortsword +8 (1d6+5/19-20/x2)
Ranged Shortbow +8 (1d6/x3)
Special Attacks sneak attack +2d6
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Statistics
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Str 11, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 18
Feats Double Slice, Great Fortitude, Toughness +4, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon
Finesse (m), Weapon Focus (Shortsword)
Traits Birthmark, Killer
Skills Acrobatics +12, Climb +7, Disable Device +16, Disguise +6, Escape Artist +12, Perception +9 (+11
to locate traps.), Sense Motive +9, Sleight of Hand +12, Stealth +12, Swim +7, Use Magic Device +3
Languages Common
SQ hard to kill (die @ -36), mythic flaws (dependencyale [per mug]), mythic power[1d6]dexterity, path
abilities (feat of dexterityacrobatics), rogue talents (combat trick, weapon training), trapfinding +2, trickster
attacks (surprise strike)
Combat Gear Potion of cure light wounds; Other Gear Mithral Chain shirt, Arrows (20), Masterwork
Shortsword, Masterwork Shortsword, Shortbow, Cloak of resistance +1, Ale (per gallon) (40), Thieves'
tools, masterwork, 18 GP, 10 SP
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Mythic Power (6/day) - 0/6
Arrows - 0/20
Potion of cure light wounds - 0/6
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Special Abilities
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Birthmark +2 save vs. charm & compulsion
Dependency (Ale [per mug]) Select one specific type of food or drink (other than water). If you do not
ingest the selected food or drink at least once per day, you begin to lose your mythic powers. After the
first day of absence, you can no longer regain points of mythic power
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Feat of Dexterity (Acrobatics) (Su) You can expend one use of mythic power to attempt a feat of
Dexterity, gaining a +20 circumstance bonus on any one Dexterity skill check or ability check.
Hard to Kill (die @ -36) (Ex) Automatically stabilize and die at negative 2x CON score.
Killer Add weapon's critical modifier to its critical bonus damage.
Mythic Power[1d6] (Dexterity) (Su) Mythic power points equal to your selected ability score.
Sneak Attack +2d6 +2d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
Surprise Strike (Ex) You can expend one use of mythic power to move up to your speed as a swift
action.
Trap Sense +1 (Ex) +1 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trapfinding +2 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Retain Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed.
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As written, half. As far as I understand, the feat just changes all the STR rules to use DEX instead. Also, I don't know where it was but I THINK I read that Jason Buhlman said it's intended that it still only apply to finessable weapons, so no using dual-scimitars with Dex. But, as I said, I can't give you a link to the quote, so I could be wrong.
You are an expert with weapons that rely on your agility.
Prerequisite: Weapon Finesse, 1st mythic tier.
Benefit: You can use your Dexterity score on all melee
attack rolls and damage rolls instead of your Strength
score.
As written, half for off-hand, 1.5 for two-hand.
If the intention is finesse weapons only, that will need to be clarified.
It applying to finessable weapons only was always just obvious to me, you have to use your head when reading rules. But DEX to damage has a very different flavour than STR to damage, wich is why it was not immediately obvious to me that a restriction that makes offhand attacs deal half STR to damage would do the same with DEX.
I understad that the RAW is half DEX on offhand attacks, but is this also the RAI?
I think its the RAI to go half DEX for off-hands, Mythic Finnesse is very powerful as is. You could go ranger and pick the feat for full damage in both hands, can't remember the name.
If it is not, now is the time for the wording to be changed.
I agree completely it needs to be clarified, although I do think the intent (and I think I read somewhere Jason Buhlman said it would be "fixed" next round) is to add damage to Weapon Finesse, not expand weapon finesse to ALL weapons.
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Contributor
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Call me crazy...I interpreted "all melee attacks" to mean iterative attacks, attacks of opportunity, swift mythic actions, and the like. Meaning "whenever you make a melee attack". I never interpreted it as "any attack with any weapon, despite the rules for Weapon Finesse".
As such, I also thought the RAW indicated that advantages for Strength (qualifying for Power Attack, extra damage when using with two hands, etc) wouldn't apply to using Dex for damage with MWF. After all, nothing explains any exceptions, and the extra damage makes MWF very powerful. At the same time, striking with your offhand might sap your Strength (= penalty), but being preternaturally graceful and agile might not (= no offhand damage penalty). Seems maybe the lack of penalty rewards the agile fighter and the bonus for wielding with two weapons rewards the power fighter.
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Contributor
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I was in that thread. I'm just saying I never thought, RAW, the mythic feat allowed for nonfinesse weapons. I guess the takeaway there is that the game should have a standard, if it doesn't already, for when a new rule excepts old rules. Feats have a 'normal' section, but the MWF didn't change any rules from normal, other than adding Dex to damage if you have Weapon Finesse. As such, it wouldn't allow 1.5 Dex for two-handed or force half Dex for off-handed weapons. The question for me is, is that difference between Strength and Dex fighters okay, or does Paizo change it? And if they do change it, do such descriptions eat up word count by always having to clarify nonstandardized rules?
Call me crazy...I interpreted "all melee attacks" to mean iterative attacks, attacks of opportunity, swift mythic actions, and the like. Meaning "whenever you make a melee attack". I never interpreted it as "any attack with any weapon, despite the rules for Weapon Finesse".
As such, I also thought the RAW indicated that advantages for Strength (qualifying for Power Attack, extra damage when using with two hands, etc) wouldn't apply to using Dex for damage with MWF. After all, nothing explains any exceptions, and the extra damage makes MWF very powerful. At the same time, striking with your offhand might sap your Strength (= penalty), but being preternaturally graceful and agile might not (= no offhand damage penalty). Seems maybe the lack of penalty rewards the agile fighter and the bonus for wielding with two weapons rewards the power fighter.
your crazy :)