I'm looking for a build that is based on illusions used to debuff, controll and maybe even attack and kill enemies.
The ide came to me when I read the "vision of hell" spell, that exactly does what this concept should be based around.
The character should be a nightmare that drives his enemies to madness. Primary in combat but I think there are also a lot of out-of-combat options aviable that support such a theme.
Well, I guess the base should be either wizard, witch or sorcerer - I also considered bard but he does not have enough spells and stuff to really fit in.
The spells used will probably focus on illusion and necromancy -I'd be glad if you had ideas for spells that would fit in that concept.
That far I thought about
vision of hell (somehow this is "THE" spell that should be used every single combat)
fear spells
Shadow spells
image spells
scare
Magic Jar
Suffocation
Mad Hallucination
Loathsome Veil
Illusory Wall
Phantasmal Killer
Mirage Arcana
Nightmare
Phantasmal Web
Shadow Projection
Darkness
Deeper Darkness
Guess witch is a bad choice because lots of these spells are not available on her list.
So wizard/sorc will probably be my way to go. shadow bloodline? An Illsionist? I'm not sure.
What can I do to make this viable? Something like vision of hell as aura or swift action would be amazing.
oh, yea, and max. intimidate ranks would probably be good as well
Input please - I'm really not sure how to make this work effectively... :S
I dont wana mix in the warlock (or 3.5 stuff in general).
The problem with ninja is that it wouldnt be effective. I'm still looking for an optimized build and therefor combination with ninja is not going to work in order to keep casterlevel and save-DC's up (while damage of a not-full-progressed ninja is even worse than a regular ninja's one). Dealing physical damage is not really what I'm looking for.
You could take a look at the Threatening Illusion metamagic feat.
But to use it you'd have to be a gnome or have racial heritage gnome.
For example you could make a gnome arcane tattoed sorcerer.
You get a bonus to spells enhanced by metamagic feats, an unkillable familiar (at leat as long as it's a tattoo) and the varisian tattoo for +1 CL in illusion spells.
Choose one illusion (figment) spell you want to cast often and take magical knack or wayang spellhunter in it so you can use threatening illusion without level increase.
I don't have time to write up a full build, but for the basics I'd sat go for an illusionist wizard with the phantasm subschool. The powers line up perfectly with what you are describing, though the first level ability is touch. Also check out the shadowcaster archetype and associated metamagic feats (listed in a sidebar on the shadowcaster page of pfsrd).
If you are creative with your illusions, you can have fun with them even at early levels, before you have access to the things that actually cause fear effects, and a bit later the umbral spell and shadowgrasp spell metamagics adds some nice control elements to any area spell you want, and the tenebrous spell metamagic just buffs up your dc's. The only problem with shadowcaster is that it takes up bonus feats, so you get your metamagics a bit later. Then again, you could take the umbral spell feat line without the archetype if it works out better. I just think the shadowcaster archetype has some nice flavor and fits what you want to do by strengthening your shadow spells.
You might also look at the threatening illusion metamagic, which isn't great, but fits what you want to do (though you have to be a gnome for it to work). Also, sickening spell is kind of cool, though you have to deal damage (maybe use in conjunction with your shadow conjurations later on?).
*Edit: Ninja'd on the threatening illusion.
I dont really think threatening illusion is worth it - its just one square and even gives a will save. But the umbral feat chain is amazing, thank you, that is exactly what I was looking for. But I dont think the archtype is worth it - wether 20 or 40 percent is not really that much of a difference and I will really need those bonus feats.
Thanls for great input - my build slowly gets in shape!
But Im still open to more ideas. Is there a way to get acess to haunting choir? That spell would be really great to have...
And Im still not sure wether I might even prefer the sorcerer. Phantasm subschool is amazing, but I could really boost my saves if I picked sorcerer and apply MM on the fly...
I wish there was a way to make shadow summons a bit tougher (wether 20% or 40% hitpoints is not thaaat much of a difference - they'd be onehitted anyway) because sommons would fit in really good....
I see what you are saying about sorcerer and spontaneously applying metamagics, but the only bloodlines that might work for you (in terms of both RP and optimization) are arcane, shadow, and umbral, and I don't really see any of them being all that great for this build when compared to the phantasm subschool. Specifically, umbral meshes nicely with the tenebrous spell feat line, but it doesn't really match your character concept as closely as the phantasm subschool. It would make you more of a shadowcaster than a nightmare, and that 8th level ability for phantasm is perfect for you. Sure you have to plan more as a wizard, but that has always been true.
Yea, I guess phantasm really fits great.
But the other abilities of Illusion (ohantasm) are not that great actually. What umbral (or arcane) give as bloodline is pretty neat though - darkvision, deeper darkness that does not work for me, "shadow well" or the maazing DC-boosts of arcane, I think both is really strong - especially for a build that will focus on shadow spells which need 2 fails to actually be effective.
Bla - its a really hard decision...
Do you maybe have some more ideas for spells and feats?
And I have a question to "vision of hell"
Will it effect my group if I tell them about the spells effect? "a character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw", so if I showed it to them sometime before the actual fight they would not have to make a save, right?
Do you have certain combinations of spells in mind for umbral spell and shadow grasp?
I'm still looking for more input, thanks for the help so far, but I'm just not sure which way to chose yet:D
Wasum
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Ok, thats him - what do you think?
I think the concept is pretty clear - he has some nice abilities. I love that you actually can use phantasmal killer in a pretty effective way (dc 31 sounds great!)
Honestly I think he'd make a good villain as well - give him a melee ally with darkvision and some time to prepare a labyrinth of normal darkness and entangle darkness and he should really be able to cause some trouble!
So please let me know what you think, any suggestions are welcome!
Has'tu An-ghest
Male gnome; Small Humanoid (Gnome)
Sorcerer (arcane) 10
Vision: Darkvision 60ft
Hit Dice: 10d6+50
Hit Points: 85
Initiative: +9
Speed: Walk 20 ft.
AC: 24 (mage armor)
Saves:
Fort: +11, Ref: +10, Will: +9
Attacks:
“An-Ghest's Thrown Despair“ x6, +8
Special Qualities:
Familiar (Scorpion), Metamagic Adept, New Arcana (Fear)
Abilities:
STR 6 (-2), DEX 16 (+2), CON 18 (+3), INT 12 (+1), WIS 8 (-1), CHA 26(+8)
Spells Known (CL 10th, in dim light/darkness CL 11th, Concentration +18)
5th (4/day) - Phantasmal Web (DC 26+)
4th (7/day) - Dimension Door, Phantasmal Killer (DC (DC 25+), Shadow Conjuration (DC 25+), Fear (DC 22+)
3rd (8/day) - Vision of Hell (DC 24+), Marionette Possession, Dispel Magic, Howling Agony (DC 21+)
2nd (8/day) - Haunting Mist (DC 23+), Darkness, Invisibility, Mirror Image, False Life, Dust of Twilight (20+)
1st (8/day) - Vanish, Mage Armor, Illusion of Calm, Magic Aura, Silent Image, Color Spray
0 (at will) – Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Light, Prestidigation, Ghost Sound, Read Magic, Open-Close, Haunted Fey Aspect, Mend
Feats: Tenebrous Spell, Umbral Spell, Shadow Grasp, Spellfocus (Illusion), Greater Spellfocus (Illusion), Persistent Spell
Traits: Reactionary, magical lineage (shadow Conjuration), Gnome Traits
Alignment: Neutral
Possessions: An-Ghest's Glove of Darkness; Cloak of Resistance +4; Handy Haversack; Headband of Alluring Charisma +4; Belt of Physical Might +2; +3 Mithrilbuckler; Amulet of Natural Armor +1; Ring of Protection +1; Metamagic Rod, Piercing (lesser); Metamagic Rod, Focused (normal)
An-Ghest's Thrown Despair: The smart gnome uses his arcane skills to craft devasting weapons for himself and his allies. He enchants little sandbags with the spell magic aura, modified by Tenebrous Spell, Umbral Spell and Shadow Grasp. This level 4 spell makes the sandbag emanate darkness in a 10-foot radius as the spell darkness. Due to Shadow Grasp every creature in the area of darkness becomes entanged unless it succeeds a Ref save (DC 24). These sandbags are encased by a thin layer of black glass. When hitting the floor or an obstacle the glass breaks and reveals the magic effect inside. After 11 days the magic effect fades and has to be renewed. He can create up to 11 sandbags a day. In addition to that An-Ghest also creates sandbags that just eminate darkness without entangle effect – he can produce up to 8 of these in addition per day. As soon as his magic powers will expand he will be able to also add Persistent Spell to his sandbags.
At this point he is able to possess up to 110 of these entangle sandbags covering an area of 1320 squares - assuming he didnt spent spellslots on something else.
An-Ghest's Glove of Darkness: When clenched the gloves hide the garnet pattern on their palm. This pattern is enchanted like the „An-Ghest Thrown Despair“ sandbags, but without the Shadow Grasp effect. As long as he shows the palm of his gloves these emanate darkness in a 10-foot radius. He can turn this effect off as free action by simply clenching his hand.
An-Ghest uses his gloves to always gain the benefits of Tenebrous Spell when casting a spell. Therefore any spell in bold letters is usually cast with Tenebrous Spell applied (no level increase for [darkness], [shadow] and Illusion (shadow) spells) and therefor the DC and CL increases by one.
In general An-Ghest starts combat using his Vision of Hell spell, likely enhanced by a metamagic feat like persistent and his Rod of focused spell in order to soften up his enemies saves in a huge area. Those affected will suffer from -4 to fear effects and the shaken condition. Therefore he will follow up with Haunting Mist, Fear, Phantasmal Killer or even a second Vision of Hell. He uses the darkness or dust of twilight spell to entangle (and fatigue) opponents by applying shadow grasp to them. Further he uses Howling Agony to blind creatures with the Umbral Spell feat and casts shadow conjuration in order to gain more control in fight. He mainly focuses on Grease, Stinking Cloud, Spiked Pit, Summon Monster 3 (for flanking), Aqueous Orb and Web. Whenever possible he applies metamagic feats to shadow conjuration to make those spells even more dangerous.
Every morning he casts Mage Armor and False Life.
No opinions/suggestions?:/
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Has'tu An-ghest
Gesundheit.
Why gnome?
I'd assume for the +1 Illusion spell DCs.
Darkvision, cha and + 1 illusion spell DCs. Thats actually all I want.
Combine him with an Antipaladin for ultimate destruction!
What do you think about the usage of Magic Aura?
And is there any other way to overcome fear immunities than Antipaladin?
I like the idea of turning him into a sort of bomber controller. Of course, you could also do the same thing with a shadow grasp darkness spell with a larger radius, which uses up a lower spell slot. Only reason to use the magic aura spell is that they look completely mundane and sometimes the small radius is desirable. I'll come back if I come up with any other good spell combos.
Also, if you want a different flavor you could check out fetchlings. You lose out on the +1 to illusions, but it could be another fun idea. Good job so far Wasum. I might steal this idea for an NPC.
The idea about those "darkness bombs" is that a) everybody can use them, b) he has a lot of them c) they are "free" and d) he does not have to use a spell slot.
Also the DC is better than those of the regular darkness spell because it gets those +3 due to being an illusion spell.
Fetchlings actually get +1 illusion (shadow), so they'd be really nice as well. But this is actually more of a flavor thing. shadow blending is pretty neat, on the other hand the gnome gets the +1 to all illusion DC's.
It would be smart to give him leadership and an antipaladin cohort for the aura of cowardice. This would make a deadly combination. The aura would increase the DC for "vision of hell" by 4 and when this spell is cast those enemies who failed the save will have to face a DC 35 Phantasmal Killer. This is pretty neat for his level.
I think he'd make a really nice villain. He could probably really mess up a whole group of enemies. They'd spend a lot of time panicking and as far as he can pull out quite a bunch of phantasmal killers this fight will probably end deadly for some of them. But as soon as a char who has the power of telepthy makes its save vs the phantasm he is screwed:D
He has great control - darkess, entangle and fatigue, a great mist spell, "howl of agony" (I wish it was a fear, darkness or illusion spell:D) nausea and the flexibility of shadow conjuration (with insane DC's!).
But what I probably like most is that he can win his fights without even dealing one point of hitpoint damage (maybe some wisdome damage though) - I just love the concept!
Do you maybe have an idea how his antipaladin cohort could maybe lower saves even more? (Like sicken enemies)
Ah - I just found "variant channeling: Music/Art" this gives further penalties vs illusion effects - and would fit great as device for even creepier atmosphere!
So I guess I will swap a feat, give him leadership and this really cool gnome antipaladin who focuses on debuffing and mh - not sure yet, gonna have to make something sweet up. But at 8th level he could lower the enemies saves vs illusions by additional 4 - now we#re facing a fantasmal killer DC of 39.... as soon as some of the enemies fail their saves. The advantage is that those who fail their first save vs the antipaladin's channel are really likely to fail thei save for vision of hell (-8) as well and after that its even a -12 to their save vs fear/illusion spells. So when facing them you better make this variant channel save:D
I have an additional question:
Do allies have to save against my illusion spells if they know it is an illusion? I think this should work by RAW, but on the other hand that means if enemies made their saves once they will be immune to the spell for the rest of their lives...? Am I getting something wrong?
And is the "shadow grasp" entangle effect considered an illusion effect when applied to an illusion spell? Does it effect me? And my allies?
So many questions!
In case someone is interessted - I really did play this character and it was beyond amazing. Really strong, really flavorful and my party had lots of fun using my darkness bombs!
.
Oh man, I had completely forgotten about this guy. Glad to hear it worked out Wasum. I'll be needing a villain soon so I'm glad I saw the dot.
Little note:
This character is really, really powerful when he is able to unleash all his darkness stuff.
I played him really passive - as an arrogant gnome who had his party fight for him and just really showed his power in the hard battles.
I had one fight versus a huge group of elite soldiers who we were not supposed to attack and my party didnt want to encounter. But Has'tu An-ghest didnt have the slightest attention to let them survive so he prepared an attack and it was just one of the most amazing fights I ever had in this game. I started alone but later my party joined. The crazy Phantasmal killer killed one of the enemies after the next while they were running around in dispair looking for who is bringing death upon them. Noone ever got to attack the gnome or did even come close.
Later I even had the Anti-Paladin cohort so not even fear immunity was a thing.