Goblin Squad Member
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@ Jazzlvraz
I remember that and it really started when they released Win2k(Good) and WinMe(Horrible) at the same time (to find the better OS core).
Then it was XP(Good), Vista(Horrible), 7 (Good), 8(Horrible).
So in theory based on history 9 will be good, but given MS's current direction, I think it'll be crap.
I'm really starting to think I should jump the sinking MS Windows crap Ship and board the better Zorin flavor of Linux Ship.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With Windows 9 confirmed and Windows 8 officially not supported anymore except for minor updates, a new argument will arise for people if they should get Windows 9.
That seems a bit of a stretch. Yes, you'll need to get the free upgrade to 8.1, but the 8 family will be supported for at least 8 more years without shelling out for a replacement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With Windows 9 confirmed and Windows 8 officially not supported anymore except for minor updates, a new argument will arise for people if they should get Windows 9.That seems a bit of a stretch. Yes, you'll need to get the free upgrade to 8.1, but the 8 family will be supported for at least 8 more years without shelling out for a replacement.
I suspect most people that have Win 8.1 will maybe wait a month or so to see if Win 9 is better based on Microsoft's pattern. If so, a lot of people will upgrade to Win 9. Those still with Win 7 will probably upgrade to Win 9 too if it proves to be good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, I have an older Core2 Duo E8400 (3 GHz) with 4 GB of low-latency RAM and a NVidia GTX 260. My guess is that this 5-year old system is going to be a bit underpowered for Pathfinder, but I've seen some people posting that they're running around in Alpha at 25-30 FPS on systems that appear to have weaker computing and graphical power than mine. I'm planning to upgrade shortly, but I might sell/give this system to a friend to play on. Does anyone in Alpha have a system with similar capabilities and, if so, can you tell me how it runs the PFO Alpha build?
Okay, I got my old PC fired up and first off the details, it's actually a good step below your system, though the same video card.
Pentium 4 3.6ghz
2gb RAM
HDD powered by a little mouse on a tread mill
It's connected to my TV so I put it into 720p (I think it was 1680x720?)
Set the video card to max performance and PFO to fastest graphics.
Loading was slow (probably I should feed the little mouse) but once loaded it was quite smooth. In town the frame rate was around 16fps, in the wilderness it was 35-45fps. Even at low FPS it is quite smooth which supprised me and the frame rate rarely varied more that +/- 3fps. At higher frame rates the variation was closer to +/- 6fps.
I'd suggest that the video card is suitable though certainally on the minimum end of the scale. The HDD in that system was salvaged from a PC much older making it possible 10 years old now and without doubt is the worst component.
I'd suggest that your system would be able to run it and your components are a good step above what I tested it on, the concern may be when there are many people in the same area, like in town, it may cause your system to bog down making combat dificult.
I hope this is helpful.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why do people want to game on laptops? A desktop always gives better performance for a given dollar value, with much better upgradability for the future.
For me it's a necessity: living in a 370sq ft. flat that belongs to the girlfriend, I can't bring in my desktop. Also there's only one table, used for everything from eating to learning to playing board/card games. Can't use that space for a desktop+keyboard+monitor.
So, I guess the IdeaPad is quite capable of running the game?
Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Prozessor (up to 3,4 GHz), Quad-Core, 39,6 cm (15") Full HD 16:9 LED Display (non-glare), Webcam, 8 GB RAM, 1TB + 8GB SSD SSH, 2x NVIDIA GeForce GT 755M Grafik (2048 MB), HDMI, USB 3.0, WLAN-n, BT, Windows 8 64 Bit,
@ Wysper Thank you very much for that input. I'm not planning on keeping that computer as a gaming computer for myself, but I may give it to a friend to use. Additional data points are always helpful for other players who will want to know how their current computers might handle PFO and if they need an upgrade.
@Caldeathe Thank you for an additional data point there. Could you post your FPS values in a similar manner to what Wysper did?
Any very "list-oriented" people want to make a list/spreadsheet/database of various systems and how they're performing (by FPS measurements) in towns and wilderness? It would be good for info for players and for GoblinWorks alike.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...I use the laptop because it runs much more quietly. Less room noise = good.
I am more pleased than I'd expected with the decision to use an SSD boot drive in the new machine. It's rare for me to hear any sound at all except the clicking of the secondary (data) drive when it kicks in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Caldeathe Thank you for an additional data point there. Could you post your FPS values in a similar manner to what Wysper did?I did not change the settings at all. If someone can point me at a straightforward way to know what FPS I'm getting, I'd be happy to oblige.
I downloaded the free version of FRAPS to see what my frame rate was in Skyrim . It should work with any game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The below system is getting about 13-14 fps standing around in the temple.
While running through town it was usually between 8-10, dropping to 5 at worst point.
Running fine (if slightly laggy (haven't tried combat yet, still in town) on the following built around fall 2008 or 2009:
Win 7 64 bit
AMD Athlon Dual core 3800 ~2.0 Ghz
4GB
NVIDIA Geoforce 8600 2GB 1280x1024
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Goblin Squad Member
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EE is coming and I need to bend metal. This is being bought for this game (again it is embracing that I am spending more for the computer than I pay to GW before OE (OK I did pay for hard copy of Emerald Spire and maps)).
Graphics card is one of three prime concerns. It seems a NVIDIA Geforce is a solution.
I am only looking to drive one screen (too old to multi box)
I am considering 750, 760, and think 770 may be overkill.
It sounds like 2GB of RAM is needed. DO these need to be DDR5 or will DDR3 be enough.
Are the 512 core for 750 good enough or will 1152 in 760 be significantly better?
Does 128 vs 64 bit matter for this type of application.
Expect DVI ininterface, but should have HDMI for future.
CPU and RAM
i5 seems good enough, there does not seem need to go to i7. I3 seems restricted.
How fast is fast enough? I could throw out numbers, but that does not improve question.
Need system which will support 16 GB, but consider starting with 8GB (In 4/4/0/0 configuration to more easily expand to 16 if need be).
Hard drive 500 GB 7200 HD for files, though this may be more than needed if only gaming.
SDD, is 128 sufficient for OS and game or is 256 needed? If 128 is marginal, what will effect be? I do expect to run this system only for the game, so I do agree the SSD is vital for new boots.
Other concepts.
How does one partition these under windows? Is this D rive and C drive.
4th item not essential unless you crash: external back up disk over USB or thunderbolt or SCSI or ???? Is there ea SATA interface for external drives? Is that cost needed for back up (which hopefully will never be needed).
Consensus is Windows 7, or if must 8 (there was discussion of running 8 in a 7 emulating mode) -- 9 is coming and odd is luck.
then this forces mother board and tower selection. Full tower is probably best even though with only one card, a medium tower would work.
Power supply -- need to figure where any of the above publish the requirements and then use engineering 2x over design (not software it will take 2.5 x more that the most conservative estimate.
Thank you for your time. Local have suggested MWAVE and TigerDirect as alternate to NewEgg. Comments?
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Goblin Squad Member
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My nVidia GTX590 runs ate 40fps on the busiest scenes and 55 when by myself. Anything that benchmarks higher than that will be awesome, I have all settings at maximum quality.
I have a 120gb SSD which is okay but if you can get 250gb you would be happier, I'm planning an upgrade myself.
8gb of ram should be good but if you want to have other software running maybe a bit more, though PFO is a bit of a memory hog in the current build I expect some optimization will come. I would recommend you don't get 4gb with intent to upgrade later, save the money somewhere else like a smaller SSD.
I5 should be enough but there may be other reasons to get an I7 that's up to you.
Don't undervalue a good performance motherboard, watch out for all the "value add" stuff that you may not need but a low performance MB will bottle neck your whole system and is often easily overlooked.
That's my thoughts, other people will likely have different opinions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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may be other reasons to get an I7 that's up to you.
Sorry, but what does that even mean.
I7 is a CPU, I5 is good enough to run any game at the highest settings but I7 will still compile code faster for example. If you want that extra power for such purposes that is up to you but it won't improve the quality or performance of any game.
Thanks to an invite given to me by Being, I was able to test my system first-hand this weekend. Unfortunately, my SSD semi-died while downloading the installer (it would lock the system if I tried to write data to it, whether downloading directly, or copying the file over from another computer), so I had to re-image from the previous day's backup to a standard 7200 RPM hard drive.
System Specs:
Intel E8400 Core2 Duo @ 3.0 GHz
4 GB Corsair Dominator RAM
nVidia GTX260
EVGA 780i SLI FTW motherboard
Performance:
Note: PFO is currently using about 2 GB of RAM, which nearly maxed out my RAM. I had to close everything but PFO when playing to give PFO enough headroom. Unless the RAM usage changes during optimization, I highly recommend at least 6 GB of RAM for playing PFO on any system.
VERY late Friday night (after the hard drive debacle)
On Fastest 30-35 FPS in town and 60-70 out in the woods outside of town. I'd lose 10-20 FPS each time I turned and new things had to load on the screen (could be the 900 MB of memory on the GTX260 being a bit low today). I put it on Good and was able to run around at 20-25 in town and 35-40 outside of town.
Saturday afternoon: With more people around, performance went to hell. I logged in (still on Good) and couldn't move. I didn't get a "slideshow" so much as just lurching forward 20 feet at a time, unable to control my movement. I dropped the setting to Fastest and was able to run around fine with 25-30 in town and 35-40 outside of town. It was still playable when I increased it to Fast with 20-25 in town and 30-35 outside of town. At these settings, I was only losing about 5 FPS when turning and having to load new items and textures.
On Sunday I loaded the game onto a friends much newer computer (Intel i7-960 @ 3.2 GHz with 24 GB of RAM and an AMD Radeon HD6850 1gb). We put it on Fantastic and his computer got 30 FPS in town and 40 outside of town, until we ran into a group of humanoid mobs and dropped to 18 FPS. His computer dropped about 5 FPS when turning. It was playable on Fantastic on this computer, but would probably do better one setting down.
He was pissed at his previous 'just after Dell bought the company' Alienware and wanted nothing in common with the previous computer, so he swapped out the stock nVidia with an AMD video card when he placed the order. I'm not sure if the nVidia card option was more powerful or how nVidia and AMD cards are comparing in PFO, but it may not have been a good move on his part...
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Goblin Squad Member
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He was pissed at his previous 'just after Dell bought the company' Alienware and wanted nothing in common with the previous computer, so he swapped out the stock nVidia with an AMD video card when he placed the order. I'm not sure if the nVidia card option was more powerful or how nVidia and AMD cards are comparing in PFO, but it may not have been a good move on his part...
I'm no expert on graphics cards. But in my circle of friends, almost all of them have complaints about AMD when compared to nVidia.
ATI/AMD have always had great chips and lower prices than nVidia. And yet most gamers have always chosen nVidia because the ATI/AMD cards have frequently had driver issues. They work great MOST Of the time, and for less money, but then you'll get some weird comparability issue and wish you'd just gotten an nVidia. I'm not sure if this is still true in the last few years, but it was what I noticed (in an anecdotal fashion) when talking to gamers.
So just how terribly horribly godawfully bad is it if you don't have a graphics card with dedicated memory?
Lets say I have 16 gigs of Ram, an i5, and PCIe Flash storage but no dedicated graphics memory or chip.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So just how terribly horribly godawfully bad is it if you don't have a graphics card with dedicated memory?
Lets say I have 16 gigs of Ram, an i5, and PCIe Flash storage but no dedicated graphics memory or chip.
It could be real Bad, as the intergrated Intel 4000 HD graphics chip sucks
So Intel has released Iris Graphics 5200, which is what the 13" MacBook Pro has on offer.
I suspect it would run the game at low-mid settings without much difficulty. But definitely better to go NVidia if I can...
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Goblin Squad Member
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OK this might get a little sad - have a hanky ready.
The PC I have available if a Mac client isn't quite ready for Sept 15 is thus:
HP G56 Notebook
AMD Athlon II P340 Dual-Core Processor
4GB RAM
Graphics: AMD M880G with ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4250 so essentially shared memory (I think there is like 256MB dedicated and about 1900MB shared)
Obviously not a long term solution and my expectations are low, but I'm hoping to at least get character creation done to start the exp timer going, maybe do some refining or crafting. I don't think it will have performance for combat. Thoughts?
Once Mac version available, if I downloaded the PC client first, would I then need to buy the game again for the Mac client?
To my knowledge, you don't "buy the game." You get the client for free and pay to play.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To my knowledge, you don't "buy the game." You get the client for free and pay to play.
So far, everything that has been available "Includes client download."
I haven't seen any information about the client being free, although it is implied in the messages that they intend to have a free-to-play option.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To my knowledge, you don't "buy the game." You get the client for free and pay to play.
I think so too, but before I load it on the PC thought i may as well know for sure. I'm assuming that you can load the client on whatever machines you have, but only one can connect to your account and play at any one time. But living with a Mac has taught me that weird things sometimes happen with software licensing rules :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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actually, with your Alpha account you can launch up to 3 instances simultaneously, on the same or different machines. The long term plan is to allow a large or unlimited number of paid characters per account, all launchable in parallel if desired. There's no significant difference at that point between paying for 2 accounts with 1 character each, and paying for 2 characters on one account.
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Goblin Squad Member
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actually, with your Alpha account you can launch up to 3 instances simultaneously, on the same or different machines. The long term plan is to allow a large or unlimited number of paid characters per account, all launchable in parallel if desired. There's no significant difference at that point between paying for 2 accounts with 1 character each, and paying for 2 characters on one account.
The limit comes in how many ways you can split your attention and still get anything accomplished, or how much room there is for your phalanx of identical people to do the same thing at the same time. (Note: This is a joke! Not multi-box hatred.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Jazzlvraz
I remember that and it really started when they released Win2k(Good) and WinMe(Horrible) at the same time (to find the better OS core).
Then it was XP(Good), Vista(Horrible), 7 (Good), 8(Horrible).
So in theory based on history 9 will be good, but given MS's current direction, I think it'll be crap.I'm really starting to think I should jump the sinking MS Windows crap Ship and board the better Zorin flavor of Linux Ship.
Its a little more complex than that because Win ME was the last of the DOS based win95/win98 series. Win2000 forward however are part of the VMS based Windows NT line. Win8 is actually the latest iteration of Windows NT.
Regardless ... for me the Alpha runs fine on a Win8 i5 laptop with 8GB ram and dual Intel/nvidia mobile graphics.
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Thanks for all the help and advice, but I went with a prebuilt Asus M51AD with a 3.1 GHz i5 and 8 GB 1600 MHx ram with a NVDIA 760 a 120 SSD and 1 TB 7200 SATA HDD. Possibly I should have got a CPU cooler as the few weeks a year it does reach 40 C or more. Mainly in Sept, but by time I am home it is more reasonable. I will see. Added a small monitor and wireless keyboard.