Two Rules Questions


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

This is from a PFS game but I think they are more of general rules questions.

First:
I was a player in Scenario 2-11 Penumbral Accords. There was what seemed to me to be an odd ruling by the GM.

Almost everywhere in the museum there was flickering lights and shifting shadows. This made it difficult to see. The PC’s that had low light vision were not inconvenienced much. But the characters with darkvision couldn’t see anything. Since there was light you can’t use your darkvision so you don’t see anything more than the humans. That is what seemed weird to me.

PRD wrote:

Darkvision

Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black-and-white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise—invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.

To me that says my half-orc should have been able to see fine.

Now the museum was supposed to be halfway into the plane of shadows and the flicker lights were because of that. So maybe this was an exception specifically written into the adventure because of that.

I’m not really complaining because it didn’t end up having any significant effect. Since we had three human casters throwing coins with light spells all over the place, it wasn’t a problem. I am just trying to understand for the future. Can I really not use my darkvision when there are shadows? Then maybe it is not as great as I thought.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Second:
There was a half-elf that had the adopted trait. Adopted by dwarves. And took the dwarven trait of darkvision. So the character had both low-light vision and darkvision.

That wasn’t how I thought it worked. I thought it let you select your 2nd character trait from amongst the race only traits for the other race. So that the second beginning character trait could be Gold-Sniffer or Tunnel Fighter.

I didn’t think it let you pick the traits of the race description.

Was that character built correctly or not?


Morrolan de'Morcaine wrote:
PRD wrote:
The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.
To me that says my half-orc should have been able to see fine.

Agreed.

Morrolan de'Morcaine wrote:
Was that character built correctly or not?

Not. There's another thread on this which goes into extensive detail, but... no, you can't take a racial (inherent) trait such as darkvision, you can take a (half-feat) race trait such as Grounded.


1) The module said the darkvision doesn't work because their's light? The ability you quoted said Darkvision isn't spoiled by light.

2) Adopted does not let you select "racial traits". The dwarven darkvision is a racial trait as far as I can tell (both it and "minesight" alternative racial trait). It lets you select "race traits".

Quote:
Race Traits: Race traits are keyed to specific races or ethnicities, which your character must belong to in order to select the trait. If your race or ethnicity changes at some later point (perhaps as a result of polymorph magic or a reincarnation spell), the benefits gained by your race trait persist—only if your mind and memories change as well do you lose the benefits of a race trait.
Quote:
Adopted: You were adopted and raised by someone not of your actual race, and raised in a society not your own. As a result, you picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents' race.

My reading of adopted says that it basically "becomes" the race trait. So if you have a limit of two traits, and you pick "adopted", you still have one more trait to choose.


yes, your gm was probably thinking of old 2nd edition d&d rules where vision like that was based on heat (infravision) and would be messed up with light. the idea was that it took a round or so for your eyes to adjust, similar to being in a very dark room then suddenly walking outside into bright daylight.

darkvision does not work that way anymore, it is simply you can see even if there is no light, just only in black/white and only the range of your darkvision.

as to point number 2 cheapy is correct. the simple explanation is that there is a difference between racial traits and race traits.

although there is silliness within that for pfs, because you can choose to be raised by orcs and get a bite attack(orcs of golarian race trait) regardless of your actual race (gnome bite attack!rawr!!)

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:
1) The module said the darkvision doesn't work because their's light? ...

The GM said that. I do not know what the scenario write-up says.

I was simply giving the only reason I could think of for the ruling. Which would be that the adventure may have said something like these flicker lights from the plane of shadows do not let darkvision work. I do not know if it has anything like that or not.

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:
... My reading of adopted says that it basically "becomes" the race trait. So if you have a limit of two traits, and you pick "adopted", you still have one more trait to choose.
Oladon wrote:
... Not. There's another thread on this which goes into extensive detail, but... no, you can't take a racial (inherent) trait such as darkvision, you can take a (half-feat) race trait such as Grounded.

Ok, so it is better than I thought, but not as good as he thought.

I will try to mention it to him next event. He has plenty of time to rebuild since it is the first session with that character.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Two Rules Questions All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.