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Assamirs and extra traits


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Can an Assamir take the feat Extra Trait and use the Tratits granted to replace Racial traits lost when they choose a Racail subtype.


No. This is an unfortunate place in the rules where one term is used for two distinct things.

"Alternate racial traits" refers to characteristics that replace normally-inherent abilities/modifiers in a race's setup.

"Traits" refers to the abilities/modifiers which can be added (at GM discretion) to a character for flavor. These are sometimes considered "half-feats".

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For some races, there are racial feats to get some racial traits back or advance some others. You can find them under racial feats. I think they are from the Advanced Race Guide.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Racial Traits, and Race Traits, are not the same thing.


Lou Diamond wrote:
Can an Assamir take the feat Extra Trait and use the Tratits granted to replace Racial traits lost when they choose a Racail subtype.

Racial Traits are things like Darkvision, Defensive Training, Stonecunning, etc.

Race Traits are a category of Trait, which are optional rules from the APG (and other sources).

The Additional Traits feat grants you two character traits of your choice, one of which could be a Race Trait as long as you haven't already selected a Race Trait. It does not grant you Racial Traits.

The same applies to the Adopted trait, it grants you a Race Trait, not a Racial Trait.

To muck things up, some Race Traits have been incorrectly labeled as "racial traits" in some books. (Gnomes of Golarion, for instance)

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I´m talking of racial traits oposed to race traits.
The feat should be named additional race traits.
It would be very cool to have a feat that gives you more racial traits though!


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Hayato Ken wrote:

I´m talking of racial traits oposed to race traits.

The feat should be named additional race traits.
It would be very cool to have a feat that gives you more racial traits though!

That doesn't make sense, as Race traits are the only traits available to select.

In fact, you cannot have more than one trait in each category.


Don't mind my snarkiness:
Assa-what?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It is spelled Aasimar.


I am a little lost. I don't know if this is the appropriate forum or not. I have some questions about Pathfinder game rules.

Recently, I bought the new Blood of Angels book. In it, there are alternate versions of Aasimar. There's also this huge chart showing what you can get in exchange for giving up being able to cast Daylight (or some other spell given as part of the alternate versions of aasimar) once per day, at least, that's what I THINK it does.

1 Is the book actually saying that I could, for example, have a standard aasimar that gave up Daylight spell to get a grand total of +2 Wisdom and +4 Charisma? That would render the standard races obsolete where Sorcerers are concerned.

2 Second, there's these aasimar variants in the book. Now, I perfectly understand that the little chart on top describes what these variants get, and what they have to give up as a result. My question is about the "race traits" on the bottom of each description (pages 21-23). Do they just "get" these traits, or do they have to give up something from the base aasimar race? If not, doesn't that render these aasimar variants more powerful than the standard aasimar? The base version seems pretty powerful already, with the exception of that silly Daylight spell.

3 Also in the book there's this "Supernal Feast" feat. It's one of the most disgusting things I've seen in a game, and somehow it's intended for heroic types?! It involves getting sprayed accidentally (or intentionally) in the blood of a celestial beastie while fighting next to it, OR literally EATING the body of said celestial, and thus getting bonuses. Who the heck approved this?! It doesn't seem particularly heroic at all, more villainous.

Finally, I have questions from the core rules.
4 It's about Mithril. Say I get a Mithril Breastplate. Now, can a Barbarian still get all his benefits of fast speed (40/80/200) while wearing it? Could a Rogue wear it and since it's light armor, be just fine with proficiency? What about the "Expert Acrobat" ability on p132 from the Advanced Player's Guide?

5 What is the largest extradimensional space holder, like Bag of Holding and Portable Hole, in the game? Portable Hole seems to be roughly equivalent to a Type 1 and Type 4 Bags of Holding combined, yet there's no weight limit. However, weight is what the game uses to track encumbrance, NOT square feet.

6 How much weight can a Portable Hole take?

7 I have been trying to find a weapon enchantment that would allow the character the ability to heal while dishing out damage, like the old Vampiric weapon enchantment in 3.5's Forgotten Realms. There is nothing even remotely like it that I have found, not even something that would allow a tiny percentage of the damage dealt to heal the character. Is there something like that in Pathfinder?


Piccolo wrote:

I am a little lost. I don't know if this is the appropriate forum or not. I have some questions about Pathfinder game rules.

Recently, I bought the new Blood of Angels book. In it, there are alternate versions of Aasimar. There's also this huge chart showing what you can get in exchange for giving up being able to cast Daylight (or some other spell given as part of the alternate versions of aasimar) once per day, at least, that's what I THINK it does.

1 Is the book actually saying that I could, for example, have a standard aasimar that gave up Daylight spell to get a grand total of +2 Wisdom and +4 Charisma? That would render the standard races obsolete where Sorcerers are concerned.

2 Second, there's these aasimar variants in the book. Now, I perfectly understand that the little chart on top describes what these variants get, and what they have to give up as a result. My question is about the "race traits" on the bottom of each description (pages 21-23). Do they just "get" these traits, or do they have to give up something from the base aasimar race? If not, doesn't that render these aasimar variants more powerful than the standard aasimar? The base version seems pretty powerful already, with the exception of that silly Daylight spell.

3 Also in the book there's this "Supernal Feast" feat. It's one of the most disgusting things I've seen in a game, and somehow it's intended for heroic types?! It involves getting sprayed accidentally (or intentionally) in the blood of a celestial beastie while fighting next to it, OR literally EATING the body of said celestial, and thus getting bonuses. Who the heck approved this?! It doesn't seem particularly heroic at all, more villainous.

Finally, I have questions from the core rules.
4 It's about Mithril. Say I get a Mithril Breastplate. Now, can a Barbarian still get all his benefits of fast speed (40/80/200) while wearing it? Could a Rogue wear it and since it's light armor, be just fine with proficiency? What about the "Expert Acrobat" ability on p132...

1) yes, but i believe the list is supposed to be random, youre not supposed to get a choice unless your GM allows you

2) these are traits that all characters get 2 of when first created. they come in categories one of which is 'race'. so these are 'race' traits you can choose on of (along with other trait categories, like magic, regional, or campaign), they are not 'racial' traits which is your spell like ability, darkvision, etc. it is unfortunate that paizo uses such similar names for them, it causes a great deal of confusion.

3)i thought the same thing when i read it, youd have to ask the developers who made the book.

4)if you look at the description of mithril, it counts as armor of one category higher with the exception of proficiency. but in your example a barbarian would get his speed boost in normal breastplate because they can get it in light or medium armor, so lets use mithril full plate instead.

so a barbarian can get his speed bonus in mithril fullplate fine. it would count as medium armor for that ability, but he would suffer penalties because he is not proficient in heavy armor, and mithril explicitly says you need to be proficient in the normal type of armor to not get penalties in the mithril version of it. so an armored hulk archetype barbarian would be fine in it, or any barbarian that took the heavy armor feat, but not the average barbarian.

so for the same reasons, your rogue could not wear a mithril breastplate without the -1 penalty for not being proficient.

my core rulebook does not have "expert acrobat" anywhere on page 132, what ability are you referencing?


1 no, that random roll is for NPC's, that's what it said.

2 Wait a sec, is this trait thing (from the Advanced Players Guide) now supposed to be in addition to the regular stuff you get from your race? From what I read, 2 of them amount to having a free feat. Kinda overpowered isn't it? I'm running 3.5D&D adventures, and the conversion guide says Pathfinder PC's are 1 ECL higher than 3.5 characters. This would make it worse.

3 Just plain icky idea. I could see this for primarily Evil NPC's, but not PC's!

4 Medium armor (which is what Mithril Full Plate would end up being) reduces your speed to 20. Yeah, the Barb would up that to 30, but most players I know of don't want to do that. I was talking about keeping a speed of 40. Wouldn't a Mithril Breastplate allow that?

As a side note, try giving Rogues a Mithril Heavy Shield. Doesn't matter if they are proficient or not, since there is NO armor check penalty to apply to their attack rolls etc.

"What about the "Expert Acrobat" ability on p132 from the Advanced Player's Guide?" Its not in the main book, I cited the right page and book already!


Piccolo wrote:
1 no, that random roll is for NPC's, that's what it said.

"GMs may customize their aasimar NPCs using the following chart, or allow their players to do so by rolling a d%."

Piccolo wrote:
2 Wait a sec, is this trait thing (from the Advanced Players Guide) now supposed to be in addition to the regular stuff you get from your race? From what I read, 2 of them amount to having a free feat. Kinda overpowered isn't it? I'm running 3.5D&D adventures, and the conversion guide says Pathfinder PC's are 1 ECL higher than 3.5 characters. This would make it worse.

Traits are optional rule, depending upon GM approval. Don't use them if you don't like them. Or don't grant the characters two free picks but allow the characters to get two of them as a Extra Traits feat.

Spoiler:
Each of them is worth approximately 1/2 of a feat (i.e. there is trait that grants +2 to initiative, there is trait that grants +1 to one saving throw, etc.) but having two of them most of the time isn't actually equal to having a feat because you can't stack them. The game engine favors specialization higher bonus to single characteristics over lower bonuses to multiple characteristics. There are traits that are worth taking, even if one would have to spend a feat to get them because they grant bonuses that are hard to get, like +2 to initiative.


Piccolo wrote:
As a side note, try giving Rogues a Mithril Heavy Shield. Doesn't matter if they are proficient or not, since there is NO armor check penalty to apply to their attack rolls etc.

While nice, there are plenty of reasons this could be a bad idea for many rogues.

On a related note, many folks also subscribe to the idea of taking this further and using a mithril buckler for arcane casters, since it has no ACP and no arcane spell failure chance.

Drejk wrote:
Spoiler:
There are traits that are worth taking, even if one would have to spend a feat to get them because they grant bonuses that are hard to get, like +2 to initiative.

Not to mention things like Magical Lineage.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Medium Mithril Armor can be a good thing for rogues.
Just take care that the Armor Check Penalty is 0 at best.

Speaking of traits, the Armor Expert Combat Trait reduces your ACP by -1.

That can make a pretty decent boost of your AC already at low levels for low cost.


4 It's about Mithril. Say I get a Mithril Breastplate. Now, can a Barbarian still get all his benefits of fast speed (40/80/200) while wearing it? Could a Rogue wear it and since it's light armor, be just fine with proficiency? What about the "Expert Acrobat" ability on p132 from the Advanced Player's Guide?

5 What is the largest extradimensional space holder, like Bag of Holding and Portable Hole, in the game? Portable Hole seems to be roughly equivalent to a Type 1 and Type 4 Bags of Holding combined, yet there's no weight limit. However, weight is what the game uses to track encumbrance, NOT square feet.

6 How much weight can a Portable Hole take?

7 I have been trying to find a weapon enchantment that would allow the character the ability to heal while dishing out damage, like the old Vampiric weapon enchantment in 3.5's Forgotten Realms. There is nothing even remotely like it that I have found, not even something that would allow a tiny percentage of the damage dealt to heal the character. Is there something like that in Pathfinder?


Piccolo wrote:
4 It's about Mithril. Say I get a Mithril Breastplate.

"Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor."

Piccolo wrote:
Now, can a Barbarian still get all his benefits of fast speed (40/80/200) while wearing it?

Where are you getting that the barbarian loses fast movement in medium armor and what is the "(40/80/200)"? But, yes, mithral counts as the next type down for this sort of thing.

Piccolo wrote:
Could a Rogue wear it and since it's light armor, be just fine with proficiency?

"This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor." You can, however, get the Armor Check Penalty down to 0 and not bother about proficiency.

Piccolo wrote:
What about the "Expert Acrobat" ability on p132 from the Advanced Player's Guide?

Yes.

Piccolo wrote:

5 What is the largest extradimensional space holder, like Bag of Holding and Portable Hole, in the game? Portable Hole seems to be roughly equivalent to a Type 1 and Type 4 Bags of Holding combined, yet there's no weight limit. However, weight is what the game uses to track encumbrance, NOT square feet.

6 How much weight can a Portable Hole take?

It does seem odd that the Portable Hole bases its capacity on volume. I'd say either 197 metric tons or however much you can talk your DM into.

Piccolo wrote:
7 I have been trying to find a weapon enchantment that would allow the character the ability to heal while dishing out damage, like the old Vampiric weapon enchantment in 3.5's Forgotten Realms. There is nothing even remotely like it that I have found, not even something that would allow a tiny percentage of the damage dealt to heal the character. Is there something like that in Pathfinder?

Not that I know of.


Bearded Ben wrote:
Piccolo wrote:

5 What is the largest extradimensional space holder, like Bag of Holding and Portable Hole, in the game? Portable Hole seems to be roughly equivalent to a Type 1 and Type 4 Bags of Holding combined, yet there's no weight limit. However, weight is what the game uses to track encumbrance, NOT square feet.

6 How much weight can a Portable Hole take?

It does seem odd that the Portable Hole bases its capacity on volume. I'd say either 197 metric tons or however much you can talk your DM into.

If it were a type of Bag of Holding it should carry about 2000 lb. But it isn't.


4 As near as I can figure, there's only a rare few ways to get armor check penalty down. Besides Mithril, what other methods are there? Any sort of armor enchantment? What about upping the max dex bonus somehow?

5 I think the biggest Bag of Holding can take 2500lbs.

7 Maybe I could find a way to enchant a Vampiric Touch on a sword? How much would that cost? And, are there ways for the players to up the DC of the saving throw?

8 Are there rules for beyond 20th level characters? I can understand still going up in the normal 20 if you already have a level penalty but I don't know how Pathfinder treats epic.

9 I always wanted to figure out what it would take to create, and the final cost of simply buying one, but has anyone ever created a ring of IMPROVED Invisibility? What would it cost?


armor ointment is 30g and reduces the penalty for armor by 1 (minimum -1) for 8 hours

comfort magic armor ability (5000g) also reduces it by 1 (minimum 0). also stays clean and lets you sleep in it like light armor.


Where is this enchantment for armor found (I want to see the particular bits)? and will it also work for heavy armor?

Temporary ointment is not gonna cut the mustard, I am talking about permanent reductions in armor check penalties.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

There's a character trait called Armor Expert that lowers your ACP by 1. This happens to be perfect for someone who wants to wear a mithral breastplate nonproficiently.

Qadira

blackbloodtroll wrote:
It is spelled Aasimar.

only when pronouced by humans. They prefer to call themselves Assamir. They're much more fun at parties and night clubs.


1 Does anyone know where this "Comfort" magic armor upgrade is to be found?

2 Also, how fast does a Barbarian move while wearing Medium armor? Do they move at 30 or 40? The reason why I want to know is if a Barbarian puts on Mithril Full Plate, it's considered Medium armor.

3 I'm thinking the best solution to how much weight a Portable Hole can take is to add the max weights of Bag of Holding type 1 and 4, since the PH can only hold a little more than those two put together in terms of square feet (I did the math).

4 Anybody know how much it would cost to put Vampiric Touch on a weapon?

5 Or how much it would cost to put Improved Invisibility on a ring?

6 How about rules for class/character levels beyond 20?

Poldaran, I don't see any downside for a Rogue using a Mithril Heavy shield. No armor check penalty, so no problem. I think there's maybe a 5% arcane spellcasting, but that's it.

7 Still and all, I wish there was a way to make a sneak attack a one shot kill. The only way I know of might involve Vital Strike, but I dunno if that combines with a Rogue's sneak attack.


Piccolo wrote:
1 Does anyone know where this "Comfort" magic armor upgrade is to be found?

The Pathfinder Society Field Guide and d20pfsrd

Piccolo wrote:
2 Also, how fast does a Barbarian move while wearing Medium armor? Do they move at 30 or 40? The reason why I want to know is if a Barbarian puts on Mithril Full Plate, it's considered Medium armor.

30 ft. (20 ft med. armor speed + 10 ft barb. movement)

Piccolo wrote:

4 Anybody know how much it would cost to put Vampiric Touch on a weapon?

5 Or how much it would cost to put Improved Invisibility on a ring?

For both custom magic item questions - there are general guidelines here and lots of people willing to critique whatever price you pick here, but your GM would be the final authority on prices.

Piccolo wrote:
6 How about rules for class/character levels beyond 20?

There are suggestions for how to do so at the end of this section of the CRB

Piccolo wrote:
7 Still and all, I wish there was a way to make a sneak attack a one shot kill. The only way I know of might involve Vital Strike, but I dunno if that combines with a Rogue's sneak attack.

Vital Strike wouldn't multiply the sneak attack dice, if that's what you're asking. Were you thinking of being able to deal enough sneak attack damage to one-round someone or something like the assassin's save or die?


1 I had NO idea this stuff was online. Didn't think they'd put it up as they'd want people to buy the books.

2 Thought so. Nuts. Only way to get the speed back up would be to take Fleet, unless it's for light armor wearers only. or maybe boots of striding etc

4 How does one determine the save DC? I've seen these rules before, and I didn't see anything showing that. Remember, it involves the caster's Int bonus AND spell level, so who is the caster if it's a magic item? Plus, all this would do is have an additional spell effect kick off, you wouldn't have to hit a beastie for it to work (which isn't the intent).

5 224,000gp, am I right? Use activated/continuous, whenever you put on the ring, and since the spell is in rounds, that means multiply by 4. Or is this too much?

6 Are there any plans for releasing fully fledged epic level rules?

7 Yeah, but Vital Strike would be great for upping the base damage; am I right that sneak attack would stack? Ultimately, I would rather come up with something that simply allows one to knock out an opponent in one shot, but not kill. The only thing I know of that would simulate that is the Sleep spell, and that has limitations.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Piccolo wrote:
2 Thought so. Nuts. Only way to get the speed back up would be to take Fleet, unless it's for light armor wearers only. or maybe boots of striding etc

Dipping in a class that grants the Travel Domain would work quite nicely, as well.

Piccolo wrote:
4 How does one determine the save DC? I've seen these rules before, and I didn't see anything showing that. Remember, it involves the caster's Int bonus AND spell level, so who is the caster if it's a magic item?

For items, DC is 10 + Spell level + lowest applicable modifier... or 10 + 1.5 x Spell level (round down). In your case, 14.

Still, you wouldn't get an automatic Vampiric Touch on it, as hitting a foe does not match 'Use Activated'-

Piccolo wrote:
5 224,000gp, am I right? Use activated/continuous, whenever you put on the ring, and since the spell is in rounds, that means multiply by 4.

Correct. If you want a ring that makes you improved invisible for 7 rounds (the minimum possible) whenever you activate it as a standard action, you can get one for a mere 54,000...

Piccolo wrote:
6 Are there any plans for releasing fully fledged epic level rules?

Nope. Paizo's intendes way of Mythic Rules has nothing to do with Levels 21+

Piccolo wrote:
7 Yeah, but Vital Strike would be great for upping the base damage; am I right that sneak attack would stack? Ultimately, I would rather come up with something that simply allows one to knock out an opponent in one shot, but not kill. The only thing I know of that would simulate that is the Sleep spell, and that has limitations.

They would stack. However, there are more possibilities than just 'Sleep'. (Deep Slumber, the assassin's Death Attack used for paralyzing, etc.)


Note that item pricing only relies on the formula as a _last resort_ and that certain abilities/spells are considered more expensive than others. Invisibility is one of them.


There are quite a few monsters in the Bestiaries that exceed 20, thus it would make sense to have epic level rules, note that some have DR that require epic weapons to get past. There isn't even a definition of what epic weapons etc are in the first place!

I still don't have a clue what to do about that weapon enchantment. Posted it up on the thread that was mentioned about house rules.

Do you mean to say there's nothing consistent about item pricing? It'd sure be nice to have a grasp of how items are priced, so creation would be possible.


No, there is some consistency, but the item pricing chart is just a guideline if you are unable to compare an item to already existing ones. If an item sounds like one that becomes an obvious choice for a lot of characters, it's probably too cheap. If you cannot see anyone paying for it, it's probably too expensive.

At-will caster level 1 Burning Hands is probably not worth the 1.8k it costs. At-will level 1 Lesser Restoration is worth more. The formula ends up at the same price regardless. Just as an obvious example.

The formula is a guideline, but it's more important to compare to existing items and more important to "feel in" if it would be an appropriate price.


Huh. I've had a few ideas about how to limit that vampiric weapon ability, but still nothing about price/weapon bonus rating. I started a thread, and so far only one person has commented, but didn't help much. Thought I would limit the healing to the same as what you'd heal in a day naturally (but only triggering on a critical hit), and not have it do extra damage to the opponent above what the weapon normally would, as well as damaging the wielder if an undead/negative energy being was hit. However, I'd like to up the saving throw dc, or negate the need for a saving throw in the first place.

That Greater Invisibility ring at this point is priced around artifact level. Not sure if that is what its worth.

Are you guys sure that there's no extradimensional storage item larger than a Portable Hole?


If you want something larger than a portable hole you might want to look at some spells that create them and gauge from there. There are the semiplane creation spells for example, though they're pretty high level.


Oh. I have the KODT Bag War Saga, and was thinking it would be fun to have something that mimics that magic item. The only demiplane creation I have ever heard of was in the old 3.5 Manual of the Planes, with the Planeshifter class. It was a deliriously high level ability, as I recall.


Create (lesser/greater) Demiplane are 7th to 9th level wizard/sorcerer spells.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/spell-lists---sorcere r-and-wizard#TOC-9th-Level-Sorcerer-Wizard-Spells


page not found


Piccolo wrote:
page not found

There's an extra space in the URL, delete it and it works fine. Also, here it is in link form.


Is there a way to give a Rogue Poison Use without taking levels in another class or replacing trapfinding?


Piccolo: you should really start posting your questions as new threads, not replies to this old/dead thread.


sorry, I dont know much about this website

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