Another player in the Carrion Crown game I'm playing in just had a character die and asked me to help him make another. He wants to be an Aasimar, which is a race I've never liked so never looked at before now.
First, let me say, "wow!" Part of me wonders how this could possibly be balanced, though the other part would never give up the free feat (for spontaneous casters, the extra spells known) from being human even for this, so I guess it's ok.
That said, I have a question here about how the variant racial bonuses work (in addition to how anyone thought +2 to a stat was equal to casting Daylight once per day).
Let's say I make an Angel-kin Aasimar, which gives me +2 Str and +2 Cha. One of the variant abilities says:
"You gain an additional +2 racial bonus to your Strength score."
The word "additional" is tripping me up here. Which is correct:
1) I have an additional +2 racial bonus to strength, meaning that I would have a +2 racial bonus to Str, a second +2 racial bonus to Strength (which would not stack), and a +2 racial bonus to Charisma
or
2) I have an additional +2 to my racial strength bonus, meaning I now have a +4 racial bonus to Strength and a +2 racial bonus to Charisma
I really can't tell which way to read it. It seems so powerful to get a +4 to a stat with no minuses, but it also seems powerful to have three +2's with no minuses, so that's not really a clear indication. Has this been answered before?
it is just +2 Str and +2 Cha. Angel-kin do not gain other stat bonus.
"The abilities presented here replace an aasimar's spell-like ability racial trait. Any abilities that grant spells or spell-like abilities are treated as having a caster level equal to the aasimar's character level."
Angel-kin still have a spell-like ability, so it seems to me that I could still trade it for one of the variant abilities.
But if there's some obscure rule against mixing the variant abilities and the special variant heritages, that's fine. The question works just as well with the base Aasimar and the variant ability that adds +2 to Cha or Wis.
Yar.
The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.
Racial bonuses do actually stack.
~P
You're talking about the random roll table right?
Yes, exactly. The random roll table that nobody actually rolls randomly on.
Yar.
The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.Racial bonuses do actually stack.
~P
Wow that's ridiculous/awesome. Thanks.
Angelkin as any other variations is like it own race on itself. the stats modifier, the SLA and the bonus to skills are difrent from the vanilla assimar.
At least is what I understad.
Yeah, I'm not talking about adding them to the base Aasimar stats at all. I'm not really sure how else to communicate what I'm talking about. There's this huge chart of variant abilities--there's 100 options. 6 of them provide an additional +2 racial bonus to an attribute. That's what I'm talking about.
If you are talking about the alternate heritage Aasimar, then you use those modifiers, not the average Aasimar stat modifiers.
No, you were right the first time--I'm talking about the chart.
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The Chart is to replace the spell-like ability.
You, as a DM, can disallow the chart.
If you allow it, then make sure they roll, and if the stat bonus rolls are too much, then tell the player to ignore any roll that ends up on a stat boosting roll.
The whole thing is optional, and you have the option to disallow, or alter it.
Last time I played a Tiefling,(which has a similar table) my DM simply said ignore any roll that boosts a stat.
Yeah, there's a reason that chart isn't legal for PFS either, despite the race and the heritages being legal. Just sayin'.
I certainly wouldn't allow it (or I'd actually roll randomly as punishment), but the GM has allowed it in the past. This guy's second character (this one I'm helping him with is his third so far) was also an Aasimar--a cleric--and he (bafflingly) took a +2 Dex mod from the chart (he just picked and this was approved) and chose to wear Studded Leather.
This player is really "new," though--he hasn't roleplayed in 15 years and only played AD&D 2e in the past, so he barely understands anything that's going on. Even took a couple sessions to get him to understand that high rolls were always good.
Maybe the GM allowed the chart because he knew he was kind of clueless and wouldn't use it right (seriously, +2 Dex on the Cleric--not an archer cleric, mind you, just a regular melee fighting cleric--which made Dex is highest stat), and me helping him will tip the scales of balance.
I don't know, I think he needs all the help he can get.
Aasimar are hardly overpowered, considering a Human can now drop a few racials and gain a free +2 to another stat of his choice. Really, I actually agreed with my group over a houserule that removes the stat penalty from Tieflings, who are supposed to be mirror opposites of the Aasimar. As for the random racial table, I've never seen them in use and I'd say that it's mostly optional. The thing itself will only be a problem if the player really is a munchkin, since he'd demand he get to pick the racial instead of randomly rolling for one.
Aasimar are hardly overpowered, considering a Human can now drop a few racials and gain a free +2 to another stat of his choice.
Lets compare!
Human:
+2 to two ability scores
Aasimar:
+2 to two ability scores
Native Outsider
Darkvision
Skilled
Spell-Like Ability
Celestial Resistance
Bonus language
And if you consider not being 'humanoid' a penalty instead of a bonus, you can get Scion of Humanity in exchange for the bonus language.
Darkvision doesn't come up too often.
The two skill bonuses aren't that impressive.
Spell-like ability is very situational to be honest.
And woah, bonus language? That's so overpowered, oh my god!!
A human with +2 to two ability scores is an inferior human, since they lose the bonus feat. The other aasimar traits at least come close to being enough to replace it.
Darkvision doesn't come up too often.
The two skill bonuses aren't that impressive.
Spell-like ability is very situational to be honest.
And woah, bonus language? That's so overpowered, oh my god!!
Still doesn't explain why I'd choose the human version instead. It seems pretty disingenuous of you to describe the human option as just dropping "a few racials" when those racials - Skilled and Bonus Feat - are the entire reason humans are so popular in the first place, since those are the only human racial traits. (Well, those and some of the spontaneous caster favored class bonuses.)
uhm? and the extra feat and the extra skill point?
Not if you're taking +2 to a second ability score. Which, depending on your build, can actually be quite worthwhile - +2 to an ability score is often better than a feat if you're not going for an extremely feat-intensive build, so the big question is usually just whether giving up those extra skill points is worth it (and if the ability score in question is Int for something like an Alchemist then that's not even a question).
Darkvision doesn't come up too often.
The two skill bonuses aren't that impressive.
Spell-like ability is very situational to be honest.
And woah, bonus language? That's so overpowered, oh my god!!
Darkvision: 2 RP
Skilled: ~1 or 2 RPSpell-Like Ability, 3rd level: 3 RP
Celestial Resistance: 3 RP
9 RP is enough to get +4 to an ability score of your choice.
whoa totally balanced!!
The very fact that daylight 1/day is worth 3 RP is evidence enough that using RP to determine if races are balanced is a flawed approach.
Matt2VK: The whole point of the human bonus feat is that it grants you a larger number of the feats you want quicker. If the bonus feat was instead "you gain Toughness as a bonus feat", I would agree that +2 to an ability score of choice would be a much, much better deal.