Hey all,
Any advice on the Magus Archetype "Spell Dancer" (from the Advanced Race Guide.) I have a player who likes the flavor but finds the Spell Dance replacement power to be a little lack luster compared to what is given up from the standard Magus' use of the Arcane Pool ability to enhance his weapon.
You give up the ability to enhance your weapon for +10 movement and a dodge bonus to avoiding AoO from movement. The bonus to AC seems very situational although at higher levels it makes you nigh impossible to hit I suppose when provoking and AoO.
I have to admit that looking at the two abilities I sorta have to agree with the player but is there something I'm missing. Is the "Spell Dancer" Archetype meant to be played differently or in a unique way. Is it meant to rely more on Spellstrike rather than Spell Combat.
Thoughts appreciated.
Thanks,
Shade325
No, your player is right. Spelldancer is awful. Dance of Avoidance basically just makes up for the AC bonus lost from wearing light armor instead of medium or heavy. Arcane Movement is ridiculously situational, as casting a spell is just as likely to simply let you skip the situations allowed for by the ability (not to mention lasting for more than 1 round). Even if it does work, the chance of being in a situation to cast a spell, then succeed at a check because of a +1-+6 bonus, is really small. Spell Dance would be less horrible if you could use multiple abilities, but a even a single dimension door or short-term freedom of movement just doesn't cut it.
If your player wants the flavor, have them be a straight Magus (or possibly Kensai) and call it "Spelldancer." You could even homebrew an "Elven Spelldancer" trait to give them Acrobatics and/or Perform(Dance), if that was particularly important to them.
Movement and position around the battlefield is incredibly important for a Magus. I'll give up weapon enhancements and just buy/loot magic items any day.
I'll have to take a look at that Archetype. I didn't know there were any in that book, and I'm currently playing a Magus.
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Hey all,
Any advice on the Magus Archetype "Spell Dancer" (from the Advanced Race Guide.) I have a player who likes the flavor but finds the Spell Dance replacement power to be a little lack luster compared to what is given up from the standard Magus' use of the Arcane Pool ability to enhance his weapon.
You give up the ability to enhance your weapon for +10 movement and a dodge bonus to avoiding AoO from movement. The bonus to AC seems very situational although at higher levels it makes you nigh impossible to hit I suppose when provoking and AoO.
I have to admit that looking at the two abilities I sorta have to agree with the player but is there something I'm missing. Is the "Spell Dancer" Archetype meant to be played differently or in a unique way. Is it meant to rely more on Spellstrike rather than Spell Combat.
Thoughts appreciated.
Thanks,
Shade325
I think what you're not really giving enough credit to is that the Spell Dance is going to be extremely useful to highly mobile and Dex-based Magus builds. It could also mix very well with some levels in Rogue or any other class that grants Sneak Attack. Giving up a +1 to hit for a 10 ft movement bonus can actually make a huge difference in battles where tactical movement is highly important. (For example, if you can get flanking, you've just gotten a +2 to hit for giving up a +1 to hit and damage. For some characters, that's way better.)
Hmmm, the spell dancer is certainly 'weaker' from a pure damage perspective. However, it is going to be much better at moving around in mid combat and will have a much higher AC than a standard Magus thanks to the Dance of Avoidance (assuming you're building a DEX magus that will benefit from lighter armor).
In my opinion, the ability to use Dimension Door as a swift action at 9th level is very good. Make sure you get the feat that lets you use all your actions after using Dimension Door, and you can easily get a full spell combat attack on the first round of every combat.
I think what you're not really giving enough credit to is that the Spell Dance is going to be extremely useful to highly mobile and Dex-based Magus builds. It could also mix very well with some levels in Rogue or any other class that grants Sneak Attack. Giving up a +1 to hit for a 10 ft movement bonus can actually make a huge difference in battles where tactical movement is highly important. (For example, if you can get flanking, you've just gotten a +2 to hit for giving up a +1 to hit and damage. For some characters, that's way better.)
Totally this. Positioning is crucial for certain Magus builds. For instance, mine is a "step up and strike" type of build. So this archetype would have been awesome if only I had access to anything but core races when I rolled...
I'm at work with no access to my Core Books. Which race has this archetype?
I'm at work with no access to my Core Books. Which race has this archetype?
Thanks. Damn, I should have chosen elf then.
Dammit, Lee, stop stalking me!
Yeah, I'll have to ask the DM if I can switch races.
Mechanically, it won't change much except my ability score bonuses and the loss of a feat (no big deal).
Story-wise, I can weave it into gaining my special archetype. Perhaps I broke a curse I didn't know I had when gaining my mental powers...
Positioning is crucial for certain Magus builds. For instance, mine is a "step up and strike" type of build.
Can you detail this build a little bit and how it works. What is the "step up and strike" part?
Thanks,
Shade325
If I remember correctly, the Spell Dance is basically a mini-haste. Speed increase, AC boost, and you can cast a buff as a free action. If you're going more skirmisher/movement-based than straight-up damage, it's a nice option, one my players are very fond of.
If I were you, I'd suggest he make a Spell Dancer/Kensai. Then you get the added movement, decent attack damage, and a perfect setup for a dextrous fighter/mage.
He could even go Shadowdancer if he wanted to solidify his untouchability.
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If I were you, I'd suggest he make a Spell Dancer/Kensai.
Dancer/Kensai isn't an available option, as they both replace Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency.
If I remember correctly, the Spell Dance is basically a mini-haste. Speed increase, AC boost, and you can cast a buff as a free action. If you're going more skirmisher/movement-based than straight-up damage, it's a nice option, one my players are very fond of.
"Mini-Haste" is excessively kind. It is +10 enhancement bonus to speed and +2 AC vs attacks of opportunity related to movement. The speed bonus is awful, as it does not stack with other, much larger bonuses like expeditious retreat or haste, and could be permanently replaced with something like boots of springing and striding. The AC boost is fairly small for something so situational. The buffs lasts only a single round, so generally you would be better off simply casting the buff properly, then bringing it back with Spell Recall for the point you would have used on the Spell Dance.
In my opinion, the ability to use Dimension Door as a swift action at 9th level is very good. Make sure you get the feat that lets you use all your actions after using Dimension Door, and you can easily get a full spell combat attack on the first round of every combat.
You are thinking of Dimensional Agility. Unfortunately, you need a swift action to start the Spell Dance and another one to fire off Dimensional Agility, by which point you should really already be in position. You also have the options of a Quicken Metamagic Rod or Dimensional Dervish to get the swift action dimension door, but without giving up an extremely powerful class feature.
If you are going Kensai for the bonus exotic weapon prof, then a dip in Unarmed Fighter might be a decent alternative. Unarmed Fighter/Spell Dancer
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The question: what to do with this? If you could be anywhere on the field (as a magus), where would be, and what would you do?
Use it to close the distance, avoiding the enemies reach based Attack of Opportunities. Don't forget to bring your heavily armored but slow friend, your sneak attack dealing friend and whoever else with you. Drop them off so they can easily five foot step for flanking. Or vice versa, remove them from the battlefield if they go unconscious.
I made a 15th level Spell Dancer for a one-off game. I took Whip Mastery and Slashing Grace with the Dimensional line of feats. At that level, Spell Dance increases your speed to 70ft which gives you 140ft to play with when using Dimensional Assault/Dervish. Dimensional Agility does not take a swift action so you can use it with your Spell Dance. Having the Spell memorized allows the other feats to work and Improved Spell Recall lets you cast it again for two points. I also went the precise strike route and quite enjoyed doing 1d3+30 damage.
I use both depending...
You can use your swift action Dimension Door from Spell Dance and then Dimensional Agility lets you take the rest of your action, a full attack, attack and move, cast a spell, etc.
Dimensional Assault is a full round charge and you can use Spell Dance or a prepared spell to use the feat. Dimensional Dervish eats your swift action so you have to have a prepared spell to use it.
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1-2 levels Master of Many Styles
Rest in Spell Dancer
Traits: magical knack, brawler or somesuch (+hit aoo unrmed)
Feats: Combat Style Master, dodge, mobility, Panther Style 1+2, Snake, Style 1+3, Combat Reflexes, weapon finesse
Pauldrons of the snake, amulet mighty fists
Arcana: flamboyant etc for damage
Spells: Frostbite
Stats: dex for Ac/hit, wis for AC + panther, int for casting
How: round 1 activate your styles (free action), activate spell dance (swift), cast Frostbite (standard), MOVE and provoke AoO from as many foes as possible.
What?: An enemy attempts to hit you; you hit them back (panther), if theh miss you (mobility +4, spelldance +2-+4, pauldrons +2) you attack them again (Snake), if you hit you attack again (snake, immediate).
Say 3 enemies in the field. You potentially do 7 attacks in a round.
Damage?: Unarmed + Frosbite 1d6+CL + flamboyant level + anything else you got.
Intelligent enemies: it only worked once? They took a lot of attacks already, they think if they dont attack you from AoO you arent dangerous. Walk up to them and SpellCombat that smug face.
AC: 10 + armour 4 + dodge 1 + dex 5 + wis 4 = 24
On the move: mobility +4, spelldance +4, pauldrons +2 = 34
Hit: Weakest part. Invest in amulet, get Weapon finesse, cast Greater magic weapon daily, use arcana int to hit when you have swift actions available (round 2), move smart so you flank at the moment of provoking.
It's a fun build to do. Make sure your GM is on board with this.
Like this enough and you dont mind not being a full caster? Slap on 3 levels duelist.