There is no limit on Spellstrikes per turn. B is the correct answer.
And, in fact, had the Magus hit with both attacks on his turn, they could have both been Chill touches.
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Can the Magus change his mind on how to deliver an already-charged spell from round to round? I.e., if the magus casts Shocking Grasp before stepping into combat, and manages to miss with his first touch attack, can he swap over to a normal touch attack on the next round? Or is the decision made when casting the spell, and unchangable?
wait, I think Ive been doing this wrong along along according to what is said here.
How I have been doing this:
Spell combat: Magus casts touch spell, delivers spell with off hand, attacks with on hand sword (ala TWF)
Spell Strike: Magus casts spell and delivers said spell through sword.
Sounds like you guys are talking about spell striking with spell combat, you can do both? (that is to say one shocking grasp spell delivers twice through the hand and the sword?)
Can the Magus change his mind on how to deliver an already-charged spell from round to round? I.e., if the magus casts Shocking Grasp before stepping into combat, and manages to miss with his first touch attack, can he swap over to a normal touch attack on the next round? Or is the decision made when casting the spell, and unchangable?Yes, you can make the decision from round to round.
wait, I think Ive been doing this wrong along along according to what is said here.
How I have been doing this:
Spell combat: Magus casts touch spell, delivers spell with off hand, attacks with on hand sword (ala TWF)
Spell Strike: Magus casts spell and delivers said spell through sword.
Sounds like you guys are talking about spell striking with spell combat, you can do both? (that is to say one shocking grasp spell delivers twice through the hand and the sword?)
No, the way it'd work is, you'd make a normal attack with your sword then cast Shocking grasp with Spell Combat, and because of Spell Strike, the free touch you get can be made as a weapon attack instead.
So you'd end up making two weapon attacks, and one of them can deliver Shocking Grasp.
Chill Touch can specifically be used multiple times, that's probably why our discussion confused you.
Can the Magus change his mind on how to deliver an already-charged spell from round to round? I.e., if the magus casts Shocking Grasp before stepping into combat, and manages to miss with his first touch attack, can he swap over to a normal touch attack on the next round? Or is the decision made when casting the spell, and unchangable?Yes, you can make the decision from round to round.wait, I think Ive been doing this wrong along along according to what is said here.
How I have been doing this:
Spell combat: Magus casts touch spell, delivers spell with off hand, attacks with on hand sword (ala TWF)
Spell Strike: Magus casts spell and delivers said spell through sword.
Sounds like you guys are talking about spell striking with spell combat, you can do both? (that is to say one shocking grasp spell delivers twice through the hand and the sword?)
No, the way it'd work is, you'd make a normal attack with your sword then cast Shocking grasp with Spell Combat, and because of Spell Strike, the free touch you get can be made as a weapon attack instead.
So you'd end up making two weapon attacks, and one of them can deliver Shocking Grasp.
Chill Touch can specifically be used multiple times, that's probably why our discussion confused you.
ok yea yea, got it... I wasn't following fully.
So this Magus, that missed with one of his attacks when he casts Chill Touch (1 hit, used 1 charge), on the next round. He hits with his first attack and delivers the last charge of Chill Touch. Can he then make Spell Strike attack by casting a spell and making a melee attack?
Here's what happens:
Round 1:
Magus uses spell combat. He casts Chill Touch and makes his free touch. It misses. Then he makes his normal attack and hits. One charge expended.
Round 2:
Magus uses spell combat. He makes his normal attack and hits, delivering charge two of Chill Touch. He then casts (for example) Shocking Grasp and makes his free attack to deliver it.
Many of the answers given in this thread so far are incomplete or even a little misleading.
Here is everything you need to know about the Magus Spell Combat/Spellstrike abilities, courtesy of Grick
loves this quote:You have yet to experience the brain-melting horror that is Combining Spell Combat with Spellstrike! Tables have been flipped, Mountain Dew bottles scattered to the four winds, and DMs everywhere have torn out hair by the fistful, by simply trying to figure out how exactly this all works.
I must have been one of the few people that spellstrike and spell combat clicked with. For some reason or another I just got it quickly but it seems to be a common cause of confusion.
Anyway there is a FAQ that addresses this. Not going to copy and paste it as its a bit long but more or less is says that a Magus can do anything with spellstrike that one could normally do with a touch spell just with his weapon. "It’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells."
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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For starters, Matt, there's no such thing as "declares full combat with Spellstrike".
Since I can't be sure what you mean, you might start by verifying your terminology. Probably 70% of the confusion surrounding the magus has to do with people not being careful of terms when the class has two VERY different abilities that both have "spell" in the name.
First round, Magus declares Full Combat with spellstrike, casts shocking grasp and misses with both attacks.
Second Round, Magus declares Full Combat with spellstrike, he misses the first attack.
What happens next?
Assuming you mean Spell Combat, then after his attacks in round two, he can cast a spell. When he casts the spell, his held charge of Shocking Grasp dissipates. If the spell he casts is a touch spell, he gets a free touch attack, and he can choose to deliver that free touch attack with his weapon via Spellstrike.
He's also got the option to simply not cast a spell. (See "can" in Spell Combat, it's optional) In which case he's sort of wasted most of his action, but he can still hold the charge of his shocking grasp.
From my understanding of what I've read so far, the Magus needs to cast a spell to be able to use the Spellstrike feature. If the Magus does not cast a spell, the Magus does not get the extra spellstrike attack.
Spellstrike does not grant any extra attack, ever.
All it does is allow you to deliver a touch spell with your weapon, instead of with a touch or unarmed strike or natural attack.
When you cast a touch spell, you get to make a touch attack as a free action, any time during the turn in which you cast it. Spellstrike lets you make this attack with your weapon instead of with a touch.
When you're holding a charge, it's not the turn in which you cast the spell, so you don't get the attack as a free action, you have to use another action to attack. Typically an attack action or full-attack. In either of those cases, you can attempt to deliver the spell with your sword, instead of with whatever you would normally be using.
Thanks for the lovely and colorful write up Grick.
I'm still a bit confused how you are able to deliver a touch spell through your normal attacks. From my interpretation of the rules (my eyes are bleeding btw), you should only be able to deliver the charge through your weapon from the free action the touch spell gives you.
They have a little sidebar on the pathfinder d20 site that covers this so I'll post it up here.
I'm still a bit confused how you are able to deliver a touch spell through your normal attacks. From my interpretation of the rules (my eyes are bleeding btw), you should only be able to deliver the charge through your weapon from the free action the touch spell gives you.
Can a magus use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?
Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat. So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.
On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.
Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells
I hope this helps clear up a few things
Thanks for the lovely and colorful write up Grick.
I'm still a bit confused how you are able to deliver a touch spell through your normal attacks. From my interpretation of the rules (my eyes are bleeding btw), you should only be able to deliver the charge through your weapon from the free action the touch spell gives you.
"At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack."
That's the key line. Don't read past that, yet. You can deliver any touch spell through your weapon. Period.
The next part just clarifies that you do in fact get to make the free touch with your weapon instead.
I'm still a bit confused how you are able to deliver a touch spell through your normal attacks. From my interpretation of the rules (my eyes are bleeding btw), you should only be able to deliver the charge through your weapon from the free action the touch spell gives you.
This is in the guide, but it's because of Spellstrike.
Spellstrike (Su): "At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell."
Here's what the first sentence is saying:
Did you cast a spell?
Was the range "touch"?
Was the spell from the magus spell list?
If so, then you can deliver it through any weapon you are wielding as part of a melee attack.
Here's what the second sentence is saying:
The above ability also applies to the free touch attack granted by casting the spell.
The second sentence is important, since it changes the rules. Normally, a caster can only use an unarmed strike or natural weapon to deliver a touch spell when using a held charge, they don't have that option with the free attack. A wizard can cast, and then touch as a free action, but he can't use that free action to punch someone.
Spellstrike means any time you could normally deliver the touch spell, you have the option of using your weapon to do so.
The second sentence is a clarification, it's listing something else you can do, in addition to what the first sentence said.
If this was not the case, then the related topic in this FAQ would make no sense, as the "touching anything or anyone" clause only applies when holding a charge, which can only happen after the turn in which you cast the spell.
@Penge
A touch spell whether cast on that turn or as a held charge on subsequent turns is normally delivered through touching the opponent with your bare hand.
Spellstrike simply alters this for the magus. He can touch with his hand as normal, or any melee weapon strike he makes against an opponent also delivers that spell as though he had touched the target.
Refer again to the FAQ from SKR, second paragraph of Sean's answer.
Edit: triple ninja'd.
Thanks for the lovely and colorful write up Grick.
I'm still a bit confused how you are able to deliver a touch spell through your normal attacks. From my interpretation of the rules (my eyes are bleeding btw), you should only be able to deliver the charge through your weapon from the free action the touch spell gives you.
It is the normal "holding the charge" combined with the magus ability to deliver touch spells with his weapon instead of a touch attack.
A mage could cast shocking grasp in one round and then keep trying to deliver it with touch attacks until he succeeds.The magus can do the same but he always has the option to use his weapon in stead of a touch attack.
Sweet! Thanks for the quick responses. Now I can stop groping all those monsters now when my initial spellstrike misses.
The Magus can cast Chill Touch before enter combat but once in combat they would have to spell strike via an Attack Action or a Full Attack action. You only get the free attack on the round you cast your spell.
PRD
"Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action."
As well if you are holding a charge you can not cast another spell as it dissiaptes the held charge.
PRD
"Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates."
So casting chill touch in round 1 and missing means a level 2 Magus has two charges held. Next round you make 1 single attack, if you use spell combat to cast a spell you lose you charge. You could attack first then spell combat. That way you'd only waste 1 charge. Ideally I'd have used spell combat the first round starting with the spell making the free attack and attacking with the second attack. That way you get two chance to land that attack and assuming the the second attack hits then the next round I'd attack first hitting and no more chill touch charges. Then use Spell Combat for second spell.
Did the Magus declare a full attack with spell combat?
If the answer is yes the magus makes his normal attacks at -2 to hit.
Did a Magus cast a spell this round (ie did he make his concentration check if needed)?
If the answer to both of the questions is 'yes' the Magus gets all of his attacks at -2 to hit plus a touch attack or a attack with his weapon if he has spellstrike magus class feature.
You don't have to cast a touch spell with Spell Combat, you can cast Shield or Dimension Door or anything else from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action.