Stats are in order something like:
10, 14, 10, 20, 10, 8
Ondes Haskelion, Elf Wizard (Teleporter)
Prohibited schools: Illusion, Necromancy
Character is now level 4 with the following feats:
1: Improved Initiative
3: Spell Focus (conjuration)
I'm thinking of going either
5: Augment Summoning
5b: Craft Wondrous Items
or
5: Breadth of Knowledge (+2 to all knowledge & prof skills)
5b: Craft Wondrous Items
The following feats are on my list of things to consider (there might be more out there)
Craft Wondrous Item
Craft Wand
Craft Staff
Augment Summoning
Breadth of Knowledge
Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat are out. Only material from Core and APG permitted.
Should I aim for some metamagic? Is Craft Staff worth it? What about Craft Wand?
Breadth of knowledge is one of my favorites, but then again so is Craft wondrous.
Yeah I really don't want to skip out on craft wondrous items! Maybe I should go for Breadth of Knowledge and CWI. It really fits this character's concept and ideals. (he's more about knowledge and research than using magic). I'll grab Augment Summoning next opportunity...
Atarlost: Thanks for your reply.
I'm not using any SoD spells. The spells that see most use from me at the moment are...
Level 1
Grease
Summon Monster 1
Level 2
Summon Monster 2
Create Pit
Glitterdust
Create Pit is interesting because it DOES target reflex and it's in the APG. Preferred spell looks VERY nice. I'm not really certain which spell to apply it to, though.
I would take Augment Summoning since you summon. It is immensely useful, and never loses value. Wondrous Items is heads and shoulders above any other craft skill.
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Craft Wondrous, all the way. Your party will love you for it, and I can guarantee you won't regret it. Besides the obvious mechanical benefits, it opens up some interesting roleplaying opportunities. What items do the NPCs want you to craft for them? Would you consult with Bokken or Old Beldame to learn their crafting tips?
Atarlost: I'm aiming more for a generalist/god wizard than a specialist evoker (even though that concept IS tempting).
It looks like it'll be Craft Wondrous Items for certain, though. It's still a while until I level up to level 5, but I thought why not start planning now? :P
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Craft wonderous will be uniquely useful in kingmaker where you'll have large amounts of downtime to craft in. That said, if you summon, augment summoning is golden. Breadth of experience is my 2nd favorite feat and it's quite powerful. Basically you can't go wrong, but pick up the other at 7th. Between augment summoning and breadth of experience at level 5, augment summoning wins, just because the summon monster III list is so good.
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Agree that CWI is good in Kingmaker. Headbands/belts, Handy Haversack, plus all the party toys (amulet nat armor+N, cloak resistance+N).
I am more tempted by craft rod, than by craft wand or staff. Generally it's hard to come by specific items in Kingmaker and you will want a lesser quicken rod, asap. Having craft rod puts you ahead of the wealth curve for getting that expensive rod.
You can also make a lesser persistent rod for 4.5K , which makes your low level spells very "sticky" (Glitterdust, Slow).
Say craft wondrous now, along with another feat and craft rod perhaps at level 7? Greater spell focus isn't bad either.
Not sure about the Breadth feat, you have uber-knowledge already when you just put 1 point in each knowledge skill.
DO NOT TAKE QUICKEN FEAT. umm.. The rods are so easy to find and cheap. the spell slots are a pain in the ass. That is my take on pretty much all meta magic. Rods: Amazing. Feats: a waste (for wizards).
Breadth of Experience looks good, but in reality the feat is kinda bad.
Lets take a look at your Character, then at the Feat.
You have 20 Int, so 7 (2+int mod) Skills.Level to spend.
The Skills you 'need' are Spellcraft and a couple ranks in Linguistics (so you can talk to your summoned creatures). You should take all the knowledges, especially the 4 core Knowledges (Planes, Religion, Arcane, and Nature), but there is little need to max them out.
Look at the Knowledge skill: 99% of the time, you will be more than fine with 1 or 2 ranks in a knowledge skill (1 Rank, +3 Class Skill +5 Int Mod = 9) so you pass the majority of the rolls just by picking up a dice and not even rolling it. The 1 skill rank (out of the 7 you get per level) invested in each knowledge will get you 9 in each, which is a lot better than 2, and they will all be trained, so the 'can use untrained' is useless.
The same is nearly true of Professions and in your campaigns, how often is it necessary to know the ins and outs for the proper way to weave a reed basket underwater? If the answer is almost never, then this feat is almost never of use.
Although still young for your kind, you have a lifetime of knowledge and training.
Prerequisites: Dwarf, elf, or gnome; 100+ years old.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Knowledge and Profession skill checks, and can make checks with those skills untrained. . . .
Now, stack that up against the question of "how often is my group in Combat?" Then look at Augment Summoning.
Your summoned creatures are more powerful and robust.
Prerequisite: Spell Focus (conjuration).
Benefit: Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it.
So the question to ask yourself is "Which of the following is more true about my character?":
I wish my summoned monsters had more health and did more damage more reliably.
Versus:
I wish I had an obscure knowledge of some profession or knowledge right now that wasn't worth 1 skill point to me at any point over the last 5 levels.
If the answer is I wish my summons were more powerful, then take Augment Summoning.
While my build is not everyone's cup of tea I really like the following combination (and all within CRB/APG):
Wizard (Conjuration with the teleportation subschool, opposition illusion and enchantment)
Note: reason I drop enchantment: too many creatures are immune or resistant.
1) Spell Focus <conjuration>
1Human) Spell Focus <necromancy>
1Bonus) Scribe Scroll
3) Craft Wondrous Item
5) Greater Spell Focus <conjuration>
5Bonus) Greater Spell Focus <necromancy>
7) Augment Summoning
Spells:
Conjuration: Create Pit line of spells (if you want your GM to not hate you remind him that the climb DCs are 5 and 15 less than listed).
Black Tentacles
Summoning Spells once you hit level 5 or 7. Prior to that ignore them because they do not last long enough (even with the 1.5x bonus from the conjuration school) and there are better lower level spells.
Necro: Blindness/Deafness, Bestow Curse, Major Curse (unfortunately that is in Ultimate Magic)
A number of debuffing ray spells such as Ray of Enfeeblement.
Transmutation: any buffing spells.
Take a few evoc spells just because you might need them.
This build can debuff BBEGs, has great battlefield control, and later on can summon things to deal with the masses. Will you have flashy feats? nope but you should get the job done.
Note: I reccomend Arcane Bond with this kind of build so you can have the right spell at the right time. If you are really set on an elf I would suggest shifting the feats down by 1.
Also, get a Persistant Metamagic Rod when you can. That will really help the anti-debuffing part.
- Gauss
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The power of Breadth of Experience is the +2 to all knowledge rolls. You'll probably have at least 4 knowledges, so that's a net +8. That's huge for a skill boosting feat. Knowledges are used for identifying monsters and their abilities, which has a DC of 10+CR (generally). Breadth of experience lets you autopass sooner, and lets you reallocate skill points from knowledges later (possibly to get another knowledge).
That said, I still think augment summoning is the better choice initially.
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While my build is not everyone's cup of tea I really like the following combination (and all within CRB/APG):
Wizard (Conjuration with the teleportation subschool, opposition illusion and enchantment)
Note: reason I drop enchantment: too many creatures are immune or resistant.1) Spell Focus <conjuration>
1Human) Spell Focus <necromancy>
1Bonus) Scribe Scroll
3) Craft Wondrous Item
5) Greater Spell Focus <conjuration>
5Bonus) Greater Spell Focus <necromancy>
7) Augment Summoning
You can't take Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus as a bonus feat for a wizard.
Only Item Creation, Metamagic Feats, and Spell Mastery.
Elamdri, thanks I was tired when I posted and messed up typing that. Switch CWI and Greater Spell Focus <conjuration> and make CWI the 5th level bonus feat.
- Gauss
I seriously suggest banning crafting feats (maybe leave craft scroll and brew potion, again maybe), the crafting feats can seriously broke the Kingmaker (so can do the taking money from the kingdom). I have played Kingmaker and when we were at 10th level the DM had force us to redo our character's equipment with the WBL.
Crafting only breaks campaigns if you allow other players to benefit from a player's crafting feat.
Example of what I mean: Player 1 has Craft Wondrous Item. He crafts (at cost) for every player. This breaks things.
Example of what doesn't break it: He crafts for himself (at cost). He either does not craft for other players or he charges them full price and donates the extra (difference between price and cost) to charity or non-WBL. Thus, everyone has the money they are supposed to have according to WBL.
The WBL FAQ means that only the crafter benefits from his crafting feat. Other players do not.
This is not readily explainable 'in-character' but it keeps things balanced.
- Gauss
Not really Andreww, run the numbers sometime. I have shown in other threads that while they are good feats (some of the best) it is not really broken.
In the case of Crafting Magic Arms and Armor it amounts to a +1attack and damage and +1AC (armor) and +1AC (shield if using shield).
While definitely powerful, it is not broken.
I am about to go GM, I will return later and link the thread I posted the breakdown in.
- Gauss
I want to point out that we play on a strict see-if-it-works basis with the GM. If something turns out to be TOO powerful, we discuss it and change it. Because of this I'm not aiming for super optimized choices (hence Breadth of Knowledge for example).
Crafting only breaks campaigns if you allow other players to benefit from a player's crafting feat.
Example of what I mean: Player 1 has Craft Wondrous Item. He crafts (at cost) for every player. This breaks things.
Example of what doesn't break it: He crafts for himself (at cost). He either does not craft for other players or he charges them full price and donates the extra (difference between price and cost) to charity or non-WBL. Thus, everyone has the money they are supposed to have according to WBL.
The WBL FAQ means that only the crafter benefits from his crafting feat. Other players do not.
This is not readily explainable 'in-character' but it keeps things balanced.
- Gauss
My solution:
Supply/Demand. As demand for materials increased, so does the price. As more magic items flood the market, the price merchants are willing to pay drops. Because magic item value is low, NPCs start using them more often. As the PCs pack the stacks back into town, the market price further dives... The spiral heads ever downwards... Just keep adjusting to keep the market where you want it to be.
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While I like craft Rod, it does suck up a LOT of your feat slots.
One feat slot. Think of it as the equivalent of taking _both_ "sudden quicken" and "sudden persistent" as feats 3 times a day - as that is what you effectively get guaranteed with the rod crafting feat.
It depends on your GM whether you can buy specific rods in Kingmaker, or whether you need to wait for your magic item based economy to pop the rod you want (forlorn hope). If you can buy the rods the feat may not be that important.
There are threads on how to address WBL with crafting in place - basically greatly restrict pure cash in treasure and allow selling captured magic items for half price to pay for crafting at half price - keeping everyone happy.
And of course for an examination of the Kingmaker magic item economy I wrote The Overlords Guide to Kingdom Building originally in this dead thread
Andreww: I am not going to reproduce my posts here but I will post the links. In them I show how the bonuses achieved by a player with both Craft Wondrous Item AND Craft Magic Arms and Armor was not that great.
Post regarding a level 10 ranger
Post revisiting the level 10 ranger
There is plenty of discussion between those two, including a post (around #322 I think) where I post how it affects a wizard's DCs.
Summary at level 10 for that build:
Craft Arms and Armor = +1 attack, +1damage, +1AC (armor)
Craft Wondrous Item = +1ability score modifier and +1 resistance bonus.
Can you get a lot of special little items? Sure. Does it make that big a difference? Nope. In order to get those items you have to sacrifice the bonuses above.
Ultimately, it is not that big a deal. People look at the extra 46,000gp in the build without really considering what it can be spent on. The fact is that it is not that much because of the scaling costs of those static bonuses.
- Gauss