Inspire Courage on summons


Rules Questions


The rules on Bardic Performance read:

Quote:
If a bardic performance has audible components, the targets must be able to hear the bard for the performance to have any effect, and such performances are language dependent.

Does this mean a bard playing the trumpet must choose a language for that performance, and anyone who doesn't understand that language won't be inspired? So, any summoned animals that don't have a language can't be unaffected? This seems counter-intuitive... my group has been playing that the bard's singing applies to all my beasties, but now I'm wondering by RAW should I just have him dance instead if I want him affect my summons?


RumpinRufus wrote:
Does this mean a bard playing the trumpet must choose a language for that performance, and anyone who doesn't understand that language won't be inspired?

The trumpet (IE: audible perform skill) only really matters for Countersong.

Inspire Courage doesn't use a perform skill, you just use the ability and choose audible or visual components. If you choose audible, then it's language dependent.


Grick is, as usual, correct about the language thing.

But remember, you can just pick visual components instead--as long as the summons/companions can see you, they'd get the bonuses.

Or you could get Tongues.


mplindustries wrote:
Or you could get Tongues.

Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don't speak.


Grick wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Does this mean a bard playing the trumpet must choose a language for that performance, and anyone who doesn't understand that language won't be inspired?

The trumpet (IE: audible perform skill) only really matters for Countersong.

Inspire Courage doesn't use a perform skill, you just use the ability and choose audible or visual components. If you choose audible, then it's language dependent.

If you do use a trumpet for Countersong, though, you have to select which language you're playing the trumpet in?


Trumpets don't use language. If you choose a perform version that has a language-component (act, comedy, oratory, sing), then you must choose a language for it.

That's my take on it, anyway.


Strictly RAW, yea, you do. It's a silly artifact of the rules from when you used Perform(sing).

Go ahead and guess what the intention is though :)


Huh well that is a strange change.


You do have to pick a language for the trumpet.

Silly or not, it's the rule. Obviously, it can be houseruled, but consider that music doesn't always transfer between cultures.

For example, A Gamelon orchestra sounds a hell of a lot different than a string quartet, and not just from instrumentation. Western music's tension is tone based--we resolve dissonant sounds to move the music. Meanwhile, Indonesian music's tension is rhythmic. We'd all understand and feel the movement in a chord progression--we get that. Would you really get it if you heard a jumble of percussion changing speeds?

Sure, it might now be weird to think that learning a language also teaches you their music, but it's not that far off.


Hahah, I love the gamelan analogy. I actually play in a gamelan ensemble, and it is very different from Western music in some ways.

Anyway, I'm satisfied that a singing bard can Inspire Courage on summmons. I'm not really that concerned about not being able to use Countersong on my T-Rexs.


RumpinRufus wrote:
Anyway, I'm satisfied that a singing bard can Inspire Courage on summmons.

If you fluff the ability as 'singing' then doesn't that mean you're using audible components?


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It's the sight of him singing.


Visible performances have their own issues, by the way, in that they won't work if people can't see the bard for whatever reason (total cover, fog, darkness, the blinded condition, etc).


Grick wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Anyway, I'm satisfied that a singing bard can Inspire Courage on summmons.
If you fluff the ability as 'singing' then doesn't that mean you're using audible components?

Ah sorry, I misread your first comment. Ok, I guess I'll try to convince him to dance instead.


RumpinRufus wrote:
I'll try to convince him to dance instead.

"The sight of him singing" is utterly brilliant, though.


Yar!

*throws about a wrench randomly*

RumpinRufus wrote:
Ok, I guess I'll try to convince him to dance instead.

... but... what if the performance style of dance he chooses is... Tap?

(and simply for the potential comedic value, I've always enjoyed "Perform: Mime" as my visual component performance).

~P

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

it seems counter intuitive that bardic performance is language dependent when music doesn't use any words, its artistically the universal language. i could understand it if the performance was some kind of oratory. Singing even has enough melody that the impetus would be easily conveyed by this ability.

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