Another Helpless Question


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A high-level wizard is reduced to 0 strength and falls to the ground, helpless.

Question: What can he still do? What exactly does the "helpless" condition affect?

For instance, can he still cast spells with verbal-only components? Can he activate "at will" magic items, supernatural effects, and the like?

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Fenris Tave wrote:

A high-level wizard is reduced to 0 strength and falls to the ground, helpless.

Question: What can he still do? What exactly does the "helpless" condition affect?

For instance, can he still cast spells with verbal-only components? Can he activate "at will" magic items, supernatural effects, and the like?

Ability Scores wrote:
A character with a Strength score of 0 is too weak to move in any way and is unconscious.

You're not just helpless, you're unconscious. So no, the character wouldn't be able to do any of those things.


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At zero, he's unconcious.

Core Rulebook, page 555, Ability Score Damage, Penalty, and Drain wrote:
For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score.

When you're unconcious, you don't get to act. Some passive things still happen, such as rolling to stabilize, saves, etc.

Edit: ninja'd


...but

CRB wrote:
Dexterity score of 0 is incapable of moving and is effectively immobile (but not unconscious)


Fenris Tave wrote:

A high-level wizard is reduced to 0 strength and falls to the ground, helpless.

Question: What can he still do?

Strength (Str): "A character with a Strength score of 0 is too weak to move in any way and is unconscious."

Unconscious: "Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless."

Helpless: "A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets." (and stuff about coup de grace I omitted)

While you can perform purely mental actions (like a spell with no components) while Paralyzed, it's generally accepted that you can't do that while unconscious, even though the condition doesn't specifically say so.

Sovereign Court

"A character with a Strength score of 0 is too weak to move in any way and is unconscious."

Well, that makes it pretty clear.

Does anyone know how this would have been adjudicated in 3.5?


David Roulston wrote:
Does anyone know how this would have been adjudicated in 3.5?

d20 Ability Damaged: "A character with Strength 0 falls to the ground and is helpless."

Dex 0 is paralyzed, Con 0 is dead, Int/Wis/Cha 0 is is unconscious.

Sovereign Court

So under the current Pathfinder rules the 0-Strength wizard would be unconscious and helpless, while under 3.5 rules he'd be conscous and helpless?


David Roulston wrote:
So under the current Pathfinder rules the 0-Strength wizard would be unconscious and helpless, while under 3.5 rules he'd be conscous and helpless?

That's what it looks like, assuming the d20srd is accurate.

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