Question about Curse of Lycanthropy


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

From Bestiary wrote:

Curse of Lycanthropy (Su) A natural lycanthrope's bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects a humanoid target with lycanthropy (Fortitude DC 15 negates). If the victim's size is not within one size category of the lycanthrope, this ability has no effect.

...
Lycanthropy
A creature that catches lycanthropy becomes an afflicted lycanthrope, but shows no symptoms (and does not gain any of the template's adjustments or abilities) until the night of the next full moon, when the victim involuntarily assumes animal form and forgets his or her own identity. The character remains in animal form until the next dawn and remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he makes a DC 20 Will save, in which case he becomes aware of his condition.
A remove disease or heal spell cast by a cleric of 12th level or higher cures the affliction, provided the character receives the spell within 3 days of the infecting lycanthrope's attack. Alternatively, consuming a dose of wolfsbane (Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook 560) gives an afflicted lycanthrope a new Fortitude save to recover from lycanthropy.

Is that the ONLY way to cure or just a way to cure?

What about remove curse or break enchantment?

Silver Crusade

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Mechanically, its a disease, not a curse or an enchantment, although it does - obviously - have magical properties. To answer your question, no, this is definitely not the only way to cure a were creature, but is probably the most common short of death. A Wish spell, or maybe Limited Wish, carefully worded could cure lycanthropy. And of course a GM can create any method they wish - I'm a big fan of side quests making the party gather rare/dangerous objects for a ritual.
Technically, I player could take levels in Paladin until they became immune to disease, but as a GM I'd have a hard time letting a Lawful Good player knowingly endanger others with a condition like lycanthropy.


In CRB it's a Curse. Curse are "usually" cured by via spells like remove curse or break enchantment, but if it is written differently, you have to apply what is wriiten.

So Lycanthropy is a curse, but only a remove disease or heal spell cast by a cleric of 12th or higher cures the curse...
A nasty curse indeed! ;-)

EDIT: Mechanically it's a curse, not a disease. So paladins are affected...
It's just the way to cure which is special.
A Wish may reproduce spell of inferior level as heal...

Scarab Sages

Wow.
Since we are only 7th level and seem to be the best casters around, we are probably screwed if we fail the save. Guess we better buy a lot of wolfsbane since there is supposed to be a whole city of them coming up.
thx


you can buy some scroll of 12th level... but the better is to show your GM how he can do TPK with that...

Scarab Sages

He says he is running the AP as written.
It is the third of the Carrion Crown.
Please don't spoil anything for me.

I thought scrolls had to be at only minimum caster level now. That not true?

Besides if there isn't a caster higher level than us, there may not be any scrolls from higher level casters.

But I will check.


Jorin wrote:
I thought scrolls had to be at only minimum caster level now. That not true?

Scroll, like wands or potions, can be of any caster level, provided it's enough to legally cast the spell.

It's just that the vast majority of these items are constructed at minimum level. If nothing is stated in the item's description, it is safe to assume it is at minimum level.


We are on the same book as you and ran into the same problem. Our entire party of for caught it. We stopped off at what seemed to be a semi-major town (don't remember the name) and foud a cleric around level 12. Whether this was in the book or just the DM giving us a break I don't know. However, one of us is still afflicted as it was past the 3 days when we got to town.

Good luck


Hapless Mage wrote:

We are on the same book as you and ran into the same problem. Our entire party of for caught it. We stopped off at what seemed to be a semi-major town (don't remember the name) and foud a cleric around level 12. Whether this was in the book or just the DM giving us a break I don't know. However, one of us is still afflicted as it was past the 3 days when we got to town.

Good luck

You made the AP sound far more dangerous than I thought before. I really hope that Cleric is part of the book.


I've not read or played this one with my players, and i never read a book if i am not sure to have players for that.

Interesting, sound as a very gloomy AP. Perhaps there's another way to fight this threat, a darker and bloody path...tatataaaaaa!!!! :-)

Please accept my sincerest condolences and... heu...sorry...Good luck!!!
:-)


How do you guys actually work this in a game? Some of those alternate forms are a lot better than others. Weretiger vs. Wererat.

Do you use an LA like concept? If you do a weretiger is much better than a wererat.

Someone might argue that it is supposed to be a curse, but one character in a party with a booby prize you can't get rid of is kind of not fun.

If it's not supposed to be an alternate way to trick out your characters what is it supposed to be? I think I understood what the aim was in previous editions, but not so much in Pathfinder.

Liberty's Edge

sunbeam wrote:


Someone might argue that it is supposed to be a curse, but one character in a party with a booby prize you can't get rid of is kind of not fun.

In the Carrion Crown AP it suggests taking the character away and making him a NPC if he becomes a Werecreature. Or at least control him at nights. It's not supposed to be 'desirable' to become a were-whatever.

Spoiler:
Even though it is TOTALLY desirable to be one as a player!

Grand Lodge

Booksy wrote:

Mechanically, its a disease, not a curse or an enchantment, although it does - obviously - have magical properties. To answer your question, no, this is definitely not the only way to cure a were creature, but is probably the most common short of death. A Wish spell, or maybe Limited Wish, carefully worded could cure lycanthropy. And of course a GM can create any method they wish - I'm a big fan of side quests making the party gather rare/dangerous objects for a ritual.

Technically, I player could take levels in Paladin until they became immune to disease, but as a GM I'd have a hard time letting a Lawful Good player knowingly endanger others with a condition like lycanthropy.

At low levels then throw afflicted lycanthropes at your party instead of naturals. Afflicted lycanthropes can't pass on the Curse.

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
Booksy wrote:

Mechanically, its a disease, not a curse or an enchantment, although it does - obviously - have magical properties. To answer your question, no, this is definitely not the only way to cure a were creature, but is probably the most common short of death. A Wish spell, or maybe Limited Wish, carefully worded could cure lycanthropy. And of course a GM can create any method they wish - I'm a big fan of side quests making the party gather rare/dangerous objects for a ritual.

Technically, I player could take levels in Paladin until they became immune to disease, but as a GM I'd have a hard time letting a Lawful Good player knowingly endanger others with a condition like lycanthropy.
At low levels then throw afflicted lycanthropes at your party instead of naturals. Afflicted lycanthropes can't pass on the Curse.

Curious, I have always operated under the assumption that 'afflicted' still carried the curse and could spread it.

Do afflicted not receive the Curse Of Lycanthropy(Su) part of the template? Or is it they do but it's rendered moot by the wording "A natural lycanthrope's bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects a humanoid target... While afflicted is not mentioned at all?

Grand Lodge

Winterwalker wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Booksy wrote:

Mechanically, its a disease, not a curse or an enchantment, although it does - obviously - have magical properties. To answer your question, no, this is definitely not the only way to cure a were creature, but is probably the most common short of death. A Wish spell, or maybe Limited Wish, carefully worded could cure lycanthropy. And of course a GM can create any method they wish - I'm a big fan of side quests making the party gather rare/dangerous objects for a ritual.

Technically, I player could take levels in Paladin until they became immune to disease, but as a GM I'd have a hard time letting a Lawful Good player knowingly endanger others with a condition like lycanthropy.
At low levels then throw afflicted lycanthropes at your party instead of naturals. Afflicted lycanthropes can't pass on the Curse.

Curious, I have always operated under the assumption that 'afflicted' still carried the curse and could spread it.

Do afflicted not receive the Curse Of Lycanthropy(Su) part of the template? Or is it they do but it's rendered moot by the wording "A natural lycanthrope's bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects a humanoid target... While afflicted is not mentioned at all?

Natural lycanthropes aren't Cursed with lycanthropy, they were born that way. It also means interestingly enough you can't remove lycanthropy from a natural, there isn't a curse to remove. Producing more naturals is pretty hard, it basically requires that lycanthropes kidnap normal human males or females and forcibly breed with them. After they have what they require, the (now-cursed) human is typically slain and devoured.

If you look at the template more carefully you'll come across this line.

"A natural lycanthrope's bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects a humanoid target with lycanthropy"

The template also makes other distinctions between afflicted and natural lycanthropes. So you see, there can be variations within a template.

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
Winterwalker wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Booksy wrote:

Mechanically, its a disease, not a curse or an enchantment, although it does - obviously - have magical properties. To answer your question, no, this is definitely not the only way to cure a were creature, but is probably the most common short of death. A Wish spell, or maybe Limited Wish, carefully worded could cure lycanthropy. And of course a GM can create any method they wish - I'm a big fan of side quests making the party gather rare/dangerous objects for a ritual.

Technically, I player could take levels in Paladin until they became immune to disease, but as a GM I'd have a hard time letting a Lawful Good player knowingly endanger others with a condition like lycanthropy.
At low levels then throw afflicted lycanthropes at your party instead of naturals. Afflicted lycanthropes can't pass on the Curse.

Curious, I have always operated under the assumption that 'afflicted' still carried the curse and could spread it.

Do afflicted not receive the Curse Of Lycanthropy(Su) part of the template? Or is it they do but it's rendered moot by the wording "A natural lycanthrope's bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects a humanoid target... While afflicted is not mentioned at all?

Natural lycanthropes aren't Cursed with lycanthropy, they were born that way. It also means interestingly enough you can't remove lycanthropy from a natural, there isn't a curse to remove. Producing more naturals is pretty hard, it basically requires that lycanthropes kidnap normal human males or females and forcibly breed with them. After they have what they require, the (now-cursed) human is typically slain and devoured.

If you look at the template more carefully you'll come across this line.

"A natural lycanthrope's bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects a humanoid target with lycanthropy"

The template also makes other distinctions between afflicted and natural lycanthropes. So...

While I am aware of the distinctions of what the two types are and how they are made. I was more looking for some source that said afflicted cannot spread the curse, not the flavour text of how they are made.


Winterwalker wrote:
While I am aware of the distinctions of what the two types are and how they are made. I was more looking for some source that said afflicted cannot spread the curse, not the flavour text of how they are made.

.

Umm... common logic?
.

The rules clearly state that natural lycanthropes spread the effect.
Afflicted lycantropes are not natural lycanthropes, and are not mentioned to spread the curse.

So, the conclusion is...?

Grand Lodge

And if you're really going to be dogmatic and insist on a source.. The PFS Scenario

Spoiler:
"Midnight Mauler"
should answer it for once and all.

Grand Lodge

Winterwalker wrote:
Midnight_Angel wrote:
Winterwalker wrote:
While I am aware of the distinctions of what the two types are and how they are made. I was more looking for some source that said afflicted cannot spread the curse, not the flavour text of how they are made.

.

Umm... common logic?
.

The rules clearly state that natural lycanthropes spread the effect.
Afflicted lycantropes are not natural lycanthropes, and are not mentioned to spread the curse.

So, the conclusion is...?

Common Logic is not the name of this forum, I'd like the RAW when possible. Else, how does this affliction ever get passed?

If a true lycanthrope is not cursed, (he was born that way.) he can't spread it, and an afflicted isn't a true lycanthrope right? so he can't spread it.

How does it spread? That's what happens when I apply my common logic here, explain this to me why I'm wrong so I get it. I'm not being sarcastic btw. I'd like to know the RAW of this.

One of the distincitive powers of the natural lycanthrope IS to spread the curse. Again the template spells it out. If you can't see it from there or simply don't like the ruling run it however you feel like it. It's your home game, Jacobs isn't going to come bust down your door if you are doing it differently.


I'm pretty sure the wolfsbane option doesn't have the same time limit as the magical cure. So as long as you don't mind taking some CON damage, you can dose yourself with wolfsbane until you make your fort save on the lycanthropy.

Of course, you don't really have any way of knowing whether you've made the save until the next full moon.

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