So one of my players requested to play a Goblin barbarian.


Rise of the Runelords


He wants to play the feral gnasher archetype from the apg and I don't feel like the citizens of sandpoint would be all that comfortable with a goblin in their city.


If you don't like it you can say no. He would be killed on sight, especially during the start.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Yeah, goblins are a no no in my RotR game. I'm also really hesitant on hobgoblins, too.


I'm not usually picky -- heck, we've got a drow paladin in our party.

But I would tell the player, "No, a goblin would be killed on sight by the townspeople."

If he rolls one up, have Sheriff Hemlock, a couple of town guards, and the other PCs kill it. Keep killing his new goblins over and over again until he gets the point. "You may not play a character of the fundamental enemy race. Period."


I don't know, I'd let someone play a goblin. Maybe one from a tribe far away that was wiped out and was taken in by the other players. I'd have him be good though, an abberation of sorts. Kinda like Broo the brood in Wolverine and the X-Men comics. I think it would be neat! Lots of RP opertunity there.


We've got a goblin paladin in our party (just finishing Hook Mountain Massacre now). Personally, I think it can be kind of a cool RP opportunity but ultimately it's your game.


I'd let him play it. He WILL have to deal with the perks of being a goblin, however. He could try using Disguise to hide his goblin heritage or something similar. Maybe he could just hide in alleyways and jump from alley to alley in an attempt to dodge prying eyes.

But yeah, ultimately, your game.


I actually rolled a goblin barbarian into that AP. I just had to work incredibly hard on a backstory that would make it work. My DM and I decided that Biter (my gobbo) had adventuring experience with Ameiko. She vouched for him in town, and he was only allowed to stay at her tavern, and he had to wear a particular red bandana while in town that signified who he was. The townsfolk still hated him (at least initially), and he just kind of knee that he was taking his life into his own hands if he rolled around town without an escort... Though he viewed it as some sort of honor entourage, honestly.

I guess my point is, you can make it work if you want to... you just have to be very, very intentional.

It helped that Biter hated goblins more than any of the townsfolk did. :)


There are some issues with goblin PCs. It's workable, but some issues:

Spoiler:
Considering how prevalent goblins are as a menace in book 1, a goblin PC would likely get a lot of flak from Sandpoint's citizens.

Shalelu plays a big part in book 3, and she's very much a goblin-hater. Her personality would have to be edited, or she'd have to be removed or replaced to make a goblin PC work.


Perhaps a 'slave' of Ameiko. Takes out trash and sweeps the floors after closing.

Sczarni

Everything is possible but playing a goblin would be out of question in my campaign.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

In my opinion, playing a goblin in ANY campaign, but PARTICULARLY in Rise of the Runelords, would be not only distracting and disruptive, but would actively diminish the impact of the storyline.

I'd be naturally wary of a player who wants to play a goblin, in fact... because it would sound to me like the player's more interested in disrupting the game than he is in PLAYING the game. Unless the GM says right up front "Okay, this game is a weird one—you all play monster races! Enjoy!"

Liberty's Edge

Well, first make sure, the player doesn't want to disrupt the game.

The goblin could be one that was hatched by Brodert Quink, who found it at the Junk Yard or the Old Light, sick and hurt - a small goblin might made him feel sorry for the creature, so Brodert took him to his house and the Sandpoint citizens came to kind of like it.

Or, the goblin could be a helping Hand of father Zantus.

Or, the goblin ventured below the Old Light (no one knows this) and found a Thassilonian artefact, which made him more intelligent and social (an artefact tied to the seven virtues, possibly bravery, wisdom and righteousness). He loves what he has become, and the player needs to take care of that artefact, or else, he will become a usual goblin again...

After all, the players at the table should have fun, more so, if they are about to play a whole AP.

Sovereign Court

I'm using the first two books in the AP as a spring board for a homebrew (I've run two groups through the full AP) and we do have a goblin alchemist in the group.

Spoiler:
The player joined in when the PCs made their way to Thistletop. The goblin PC was amongst the goblin refugees who realized they were all ultimately going to be fed to the howling hole or taken to the island and never seen again. Due to the character's quirkiness, the other goblin refugees had been talking about 'volunteering' the PC as the next offering. The PCs found an unexpected ally in that fight and then in clearing Thistletop.

They're currently trying to figure out the best way to get the goblin in town without causing a major ruckus.

In one of the other groups, the party wizard dropped and was reincarnated as a goblin. It took a bit of RP to get the townfolks to realize it really was the same person, but they accepted it ultimately ... though his picking up a hat of disguise did not hurt either.

So yes, it's possible, but there will be some twists, turns and hurdles.


I do belive that goblins have a trait that allows them to pass as a very ugly halfing.

Think of them like Kender; make clear to the player that this will be a difficult race and not to be disruptive.


Make his PC be one of the captured goblins from the attack of the Swallowtail festival, which is spared for questioning and have the social attitude of the townsfolk have an impact on her/his possibilities when in town.

Also, do not pull punshes in his/her favors if the real intent is on disrupting the game and play ruff-ruff with the NPCs just to pull the excuse "It's what a goblin would do"...

Ruyan.


I run a "core races only" game, but even if I didn't, goblin PCs are problematic. Role-played correctly, they'll be very disruptive and prone to intra-party fighting.

Bottom line: I wouldn't allow it -- especially for Runelords, as goblins are the primary antagonists for Book 1 of the AP.


Think of it like this, In early America, there were Indians (the enemy of the white/european settlers) and then there were Indian Guides (think last of the mohicans) both were of the same race. But the guides were useful because they knew the 'enemy habits' and spoke the language.

They were dressed differently (some times painted with a white X on them) they were accidentally targeted in combat by "friendlies" and always were treated like second class citizens.

A goblin barbarian really wouldnt have MUCH of a different time as a half-orc one would, same suspicion same treatment, just most DMs dont really lean the RP on the half orc like in olden times.

LEt him play the Goblin but with a plethora of "we don't serve their kind in here" and "leave your pet outside!" and streets of people who close up there doors and drag their children inside when they see him comming.

Additionally, when Indians fought white armies with Indian guides, the "traitors" were targeted first, never given quarter and always killed in cruel and often torturous manners.

So essentially the PC's allies would often be trying to "accidentally" kill the goblin "friendly" AND the goblin bad guys would be targeting him, so he would always, ALWAYS be a target in any fight.
Additionally I might make PCs casters make perception checks to make sure they were not catching him accidentally in their AOEs. And if there were any NPC casters I'd make sure he got plenty of his accidental inclusions in NPC AOE.

Also have NPCs refuse to heal him, sell to him, or buy anything from him.

Basically treat him like a dog, unless later in the AP he has become renown, even then, the renown should be greatly lessened.


alternatively, why not just have him play a gnome barbarian that was captured by goblin and kept as a pet for a while? (kinda like flint fireforge and the gully dwarf incident in dragon lance)
he could then play a goblinesque character with alot of RP without the issue of being a goblin.

Even funnier would be a gnome oracle/barbarian/rage prophet. Even though the gnome escaped capture, it was driven crazy by the experience, thinks it's a goblin, and "speaks" with 'goblin gods', he could take the 'haunted' curse, and the "forces" that are moving his stuff etc are "invisible goblins that wont leave him alone" but what the PCs and NPCs see is him throwing stuff around in a constant disarray. Taking the ancestor mystery and some other key abilities would have the gnome constantly talking to "himself" in goblin to unseen entities.

IT would also however, as a race, give him "goblin" as a racial hatred.

I think this might be an EXCELLENT alternative to 'just a goblin' with ALL the RP qualities and MORE, without any of the extraneous issues of being a member of an enemy race.


I had a guy come into the first adventure of Carrion Crown with a barbarian half orc carrying a dead gnome in a sack.

It ended up working.

Hell, it ended up awesome.

I had to throw out the "trust" mechanic entirely, but it worked.


did the dead gnome "talk to him"? Did he take it out and use it like a puppet and have it sit on his knee and do weird things like try to pull off ventriloquism with it?

Did he call the gnome pork chop??


James Jacobs wrote:

In my opinion, playing a goblin in ANY campaign, but PARTICULARLY in Rise of the Runelords, would be not only distracting and disruptive, but would actively diminish the impact of the storyline.

I'd be naturally wary of a player who wants to play a goblin, in fact... because it would sound to me like the player's more interested in disrupting the game than he is in PLAYING the game. Unless the GM says right up front "Okay, this game is a weird one—you all play monster races! Enjoy!"

Pueblo Clowns

I think that the "Paizo" goblins, for me anyway, draw on some of the same taboo/symbolism area that the Pueblo Clowns kinda inhabit.
"Look at me. I'm Mr. Bungle. Don't be Mr. Bungle, kids,......"
I think it's natural to want to run with that, to explore that. I think a "goblin p.c." is a natural extension of that; I think a "disruptive" individual would be out to minmax with a more dangerous build than a goblin barbarian......they're kinda squishy and easily handled by a dungeonmaster.

I don't mean to call you guys out publicly, merely point out the awesomeness of the Paizo Goblin and what it possibly represents. I'm scared that it will get forgotten by so many of us that have played this "game" in one of its incarnations or another for the last 20 or 30 years; I feel like the "old timers," my self included, have to be constantly on the lookout for the way things might evolve, and I just don't want the "Paizo goblin" to get thrown into a laundry hamper and written off as a "disruptive element."

We're moving into a new paradigm here, and that is a good thing.


I can't remember if it was James or Jason b., but when second darkness came out there was a lot in writing bout "drow are enemies not pcs" of course now there is practically as many drow pcs as there are in ebberon, much to the Chagrin of the devs I'm sure.

Patio came out with "we be goblins" for fun, not as an idea to push it as a PC race.

However feral gnasher screams "play a goblin" , but maybe just not in rotrl.....


Something that got away from the original intent, which happens a lot. No doubt the same problem that happened in Forgotten Realms with all the Drizzts running around.

Goblins work better in settings like Skull and Shackles where it is expected that unsavory types become PCs, just tell everyone that there are certain expectations in a RotRL game.


Sounds like some excellent RP possibilities... probably worth checking with the rest of the players that they think its cool as well though...

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