Wild shape DC

[666bender]

i found 3 abilites that are DC dependend that druid gain :
1. poison
2. trample
3. burn (fire elemental)

can any one link the ecton to the rules that concern the DC ?
i really prefer rules >FAQ >logical assumption - shall make it so much easier to pass the DM .

thanks

[Gauss]

Poison:

Bestiary p302 wrote:

The saving throw to resist a poison is usually a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 poisoning creature’s racial HD + creature’s Con modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

Trample:

Bestiary p305 wrote:

The save DC against a creature’s trample attack is 10 + 1/2 creature’s HD + creature’s Str modifier (the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

Burn:

Bestiary p298 wrote:

Those affected by the burn ability must also succeed on a Ref lex save or catch fire, taking the listed damage for an additional 1d4 rounds at the start of its turn (DC 10 + 1/2 burning creature’s racial HD + burning creature’s Con modifier).

Now, how racial HD applies to Polymorph effects is anyone's guess. Neither the section on Polymorph (CRB p211) nor the Beast Shape spell comment on this. Perhaps somewhere a developer has commented on it.

My guess is that you should use the regular creatures DC as a baseline and then modify it by the difference in the ability modifier. In other words: if you have a lower Con modifier the poison DC is lower. Higher Con modifier the DC is higher.

- Gauss

[666bender]

that or use YOUR level as the hd ... more logical no ?

[AvalonXQ]

The polymorph subschool description says this (always go read this first when you have a question related to polymorph):

Quote:

The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

The Wild Shape description says what spell it "functions like," and the level of that spell will give you the DC.

4th level: DC 13 + Wisdom mod
6th level: DC 14 + Wisdom mod
8th level: DC 15 + Wisdom mod
10th level: DC 16 + Wisdom mod (for elemental or plant; still 15 + mod if animal)
12th level: DC 17 + Wisdom mod (for elemental or plant; still 15 + mod if animal)
I hope that's pretty clear.

[666bender]

AvalonXQ wrote:

The polymorph subschool description says this (always go read this first when you have a question related to polymorph):

Quote:

The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

The Wild Shape description says what spell it "functions like," and the level of that spell will give you the DC.

4th level: DC 13 + Wisdom mod
6th level: DC 14 + Wisdom mod
8th level: DC 15 + Wisdom mod
10th level: DC 16 + Wisdom mod (for elemental or plant; still 15 + mod if animal)
12th level: DC 17 + Wisdom mod (for elemental or plant; still 15 + mod if animal)
I hope that's pretty clear.

that is preaty low for medium and upper levels... making poison, trample, burn and such ... kinna useless.

also, are you sure the poison and trample are not STR / CON based?

[Gauss]

Thanks AvalonXQ, I missed that last night (was tired).

- Gauss

[AvalonXQ]

666bender wrote:

that is preaty low for medium and upper levels... making poison, trample, burn and such ... kinna useless.

The DC's are equivalent to the spells you'd be casting at that level. Actually, you gain the effect of each level of polymorph spell one level earlier than you actually gain spells of that level. A level 12 caster with DCs appropriate to a level 7 spell is good.

Quote:

also, are you sure the poison and trample are not STR / CON based?

I'm not 100% sure. The assumption I'm making is that since druid spellcasting is wisdom-based, the spells emulated by the Wild Shape ability are also wisdom-based. This is likely what is intended, but I can't affirmatively prove it based on the rules as written.