Can Breath Weapon Bomb be combined with Dispelling Bomb?

[Elamdri]

Dispelling Bomb:

Dispelling Bomb: When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it dispel magic effects instead of deal damage. Creatures that take a direct hit from a dispelling bomb are subject to a targeted dispel magic spell, using the alchemist's level as the caster level. This cannot be used to target a specific spell effect. The alchemist must be at least 6th level before selecting this discovery.

Breath Weapon Bomb:

Breath Weapon Bomb*: Instead of drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb, the alchemist can draw the components, drink them, mix them within his body, and then expel them as a breath weapon as a standard action. This breath weapon is a 15-foot cone and has the same DC as the bomb. Each creature within the cone takes damage as if it had suffered a direct hit from the alchemist's bomb, but succeeding at a Reflex save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the alchemist's level + the alchemist's Intelligent modifier) halves the damage. Unlike throwing normal bombs, drawing, drinking, and expelling breath weapon bombs does not provoke attacks of opportunity. An alchemist must be at least 6th level before selecting this discovery.

Does getting hit by the breath weapon count as a direct hit for the dispelling bomb?

[Phasics]

As written seems to work, I'm surprised dispelling bomb doesn't have an asterix to prevent stacking but as written seems fine

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yes, it works.

It also works with the cloud effect bombs.

Dispelling bomb not having the asterisk is the only thing that makes it worth picking up. I *like* choosing what to dispel, thank you very much...

[Dennis Baker]

Elamdri wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Does getting hit by the breath weapon count as a direct hit for the dispelling bomb?

Quote:

Creatures that take a direct hit from a dispelling bomb are subject to a targeted dispel magic spell

Quote:

Each creature within the cone takes damage as if it had suffered a direct hit from the alchemist's bomb,

No-one is taking a direct hit from the bomb. They are taking damage as if they had suffered a direct hit. It does not work. Dispelling is not damage. Similarly none of the other bomb effects apply other than damage.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think you're being a tad overly pedantic there... O_O

You're claiming there is no direct hit at all from breath weapon bomb? That's kind of ridiculous... You're giving up a ton of range and damage (I'll take ranged touch over save for half any day) and some area just FOR the "everyone is directly hit" deal...

[Dennis Baker]

Reading it at face value is not being "pedantic".

It's not even a questionable call. It fails on two major points; not only is there no direct hit, it couldn't cause a non-damage effect even if there were. The breath weapon bomb specifically says every creature in the cone "takes damage" as if struck. Effects that don't deal damage are not included.

[W. John Hare]

I agree with Dennis' assessment.
If you mix the two you get a non-effect.
With the Dispel Magic there is no damage, and because there is no direct hit, there is no dispel magic effect either.
Net result Breath Weapon Bomb + Dispelling Bomb = wasted action.

[Elamdri]

I somewhat figured that was the case. Strange though that you can combine abilities like that to produce a zero effect.

[Phasics]

Just when you thought you'd finally found a use for Breath Weapon Bomb, ;)

such a bad discovery forever locked into only doing fire damage ;)

[Elamdri]

Well, to be honest I'm not sure how many times I'd honestly need a 15ft cone dispel, but was just tinkering with stuff and struck me as a weird combo.

[Phasics]

Elamdri wrote:

Well, to be honest I'm not sure how many times I'd honestly need a 15ft cone dispel, but was just tinkering with stuff and struck me as a weird combo.

Oh I don't know as a GM a 15ft cone dispel to remove haste from the party seems like a pretty solid use ;)

[Starcoffin]

Quote:

Creatures that take a direct hit from a dispelling bomb are subject to a targeted dispel magic spell

Quote:

Each creature within the cone takes damage as if it had suffered a direct hit from the alchemist's bomb,

RAW, I can see why it does not work, but I would house-rule that you get a cone dispel. The fact that the cone states "AS IF it had suffered a direct hit" is enough for me to assume that if a bomb has an effect that triggers when you have a direct hit, damage (if any) and effects (if any) should trigger.

Also, hardly is this game breaking; it takes 2 level 6 discoveries (so you have to wait until level 7 and use a feat to gain this ability, if not wait until level 8), only to remove buffs from enemies. Yes, removing buffs is very good at leveling that playing field once again, but it does not make you any better then the enemy on its own. Also, by level 7/8, the party spellcaster already has this spell and can choose what buffs it targets.

[Dennis Baker]

The grenadier gets a similar cone but it targets one creature in the area and everyone else in the cone takes splash damage. It works with the grenadier's ability.

Quote:

Directed Blast (Su): At 6th level, a grenadier can detonate a bomb so that it splashes in a 20-foot cone rather than affecting a radius. The cone starts at the alchemist and extends away from her in the direction she chooses. The alchemist designates one creature in the squares affected by the cone to be the target of the bomb and makes her attack roll against that creature; all other squares in the cone take splash damage. If the alchemist has the explosive bomb discovery and throws an explosive directed blast, the cone of splash damage is 30 feet long instead of 20 feet. This ability replaces swift poisoning.

If you are going to house rule something, I'd suggest just getting rid of breath weapon bomb and making the grenadier's ability available as a discovery. Then things like dispelling bomb work.

FWIW, area dispel is only available as part of greater dispel which is a 6th level spell.

[Phasics]

considering you can throw out dispelling fast bombs which is better than a greater dispel since you can hit the same target multiple times, breath bomb dispel,legal or not, isn't so bad

[Starcoffin]

That is an interesting ability, but it only effects one target if used with Directed Blast. For damaging bombs, the larger splash area is nice, but with dispelling bomb, it is moot and just gives you a smaller range with a bomb then if you just throw it.

I may be reading this wrong, I don't play alchemists so I don't know the ins and outs of their abilities very well.

[Starcoffin]

Phasics wrote:

considering you can throw out dispelling fast bombs which is better than a greater dispel since you can hit the same target multiple times, breath bomb dispel,legal or not, isn't so bad

Using the breath is a standard action, so you can't make a cone dispelling breath multiple times a turn.

[Dennis Baker]

Starcoffin wrote:

That is an interesting ability, but it only effects one target if used with Directed Blast. For damaging bombs, the larger splash area is nice, but with dispelling bomb, it is moot and just gives you a smaller range with a bomb then if you just throw it.

I may be reading this wrong, I don't play alchemists so I don't know the ins and outs of their abilities very well.

You are right, for some reason I was thinking dispelling bomb did reduced damage like some of the other effect bombs.

[Starcoffin]

Dennis Baker wrote:

You are right, for some reason I was thinking dispelling bomb did reduced damage like some of the other effect bombs.

Now that would be nice. "I hit you for X, and remove your haste."

[Dennis Baker]

Well I'm pretty sure you can use it with fast bombs so you can dispel and deal damage in the same round. Or use it repeatedly to make your GM's pre-buffed baddie wimper.

[Starcoffin]

You can fast bombs with dispel magic, but you cant fast bombs with breath weapons. But yeah, with the right feats, you could throw something like 6 bombs a round, all with dispel magic if ya want.

[Phasics]

Starcoffin wrote:

You can fast bombs with dispel magic, but you cant fast bombs with breath weapons. But yeah, with the right feats, you could throw something like 6 bombs a round, all with dispel magic if ya want.

6 .... and the rest ;)

[Elamdri]

What I have been doing so far is combining dispelling bomb with stink bomb when I need it. Creates the cloud and dispels magic. Pretty powerful attack. Was just curious if the cone dispel idea would work, which as was confirmed, it doesn't.