RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Hi guys,
My group came across something this weekend that seems a bit overpowered to me. As the GM, I was in charge of the BBEG at the end of the session (this was a premade baddie in a PFS scenario, so I didn't have the option of changing things up, BTW). The group's caster cast silence on an item the fighter was carrying, and he ran up near my BBEG caster. The players then said that everything was silenced, and my caster gets no save against it. I was frantically looking through the list of spells and abilities he had, but nothing he could do would work in an area of silence (no Silent Spell feat, no wands of anything useful, nothing), and his movement was too slow to get away from the fighter. So, obviously, he got killed a bit faster than I expected (though he was buffed with displacement and mirror image, so he lasted at least a few rounds).
So, the question is, do creatures entering (or being forced into) an area of silence get a save against it, or is only the original target allowed a save?
Thanks!
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Only the original target gets a save, and only if that target is an unwilling creature. They could have just as easily cast it on a point in space 2 inches in front of the BBEG's face as well, still granting no save (thought the AoE would be immobile).
The tactic you describe is not only legal, it's standard operating procedure for any cleric-including party with the slightest sense of teamwork.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Oh, forgot one thing: things that are not spells (such as spell-like or supernatural abilities) don't have components, so anything that doesn't require sound/conversation to function and wasn't a spell would still work.
For instance, an Evoker wizard couldn't cast magic missile, but could still use his Force Missile ability.
Teleport specalist conjuration wizard. His shift ability is an SLA and will allow him to quickly I've out of such things.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Teleport specalist conjuration wizard. His shift ability is an SLA and will allow him to quickly I've out of such things.
Oh yeah, I realize there are several ways to get around this, my problem was this was a premade enemy in a PFS scenario, and for some insane reason that enemy was built with essentially NOTHING that would work in an area of silence (my options were hand of the apprentice or try to run away). I was REALLY annoyed because he had Metamagic Mastery but didn't have Silent Spell, so that was useless too! LOL
Anyway, I just hadn't come across this before. Thanks for the input!
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There's actually a module...
...where a villain ambushes a lone PC in the streets at night by casting silence on a pebble, throwing the pebble at the PC, and then attacking the unable-to-cast-or-call-for-help PC.
The silence spell on the other hand, in an area affect and not targetted on the PC. As such it does not give a save.
(This was in 2006 in reference to the Age of Worms Adventure Path published in Dragon magazine, of which JB was Managing Editor, and presumably applies to 3.5/OGL/d20 rather than specifically PFRPG)
Yeah. This is basically the most common tactic used against casters and it is highly effective. The problem that most casters run into is that while there are spells that don't require spell components or movement there is no spell that does not require sound.
The best chance your caster had was to simply run away. You move, take the AoO (it's better than a full rounder) and get out of range of the the silence spell (only 20 feet) then try to cast a spell that can either remove the silence or immobilize the fighter.
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Pretty smart tactic, really. There are lots of ways to get an enemy stuck in an area of silence with no save. Placing the spell on an arrow or other missile weapon and shooting the AoE to its destination. Sleight-of-handing a silence-bearing object into the pockets of the enemy. Casting the spell on one pebble in a handful of them, then hurling the handful near the target; have fun sorting out which one has the spell, Mr Wizard.
Silence is an often under-utilized tactic, so it's not really surprising that the scenario didn't account for it. Kudos to the tactically-minded players.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Yeah. This is basically the most common tactic used against casters and it is highly effective. The problem that most casters run into is that while there are spells that don't require spell components or movement there is no spell that does not require sound.
The best chance your caster had was to simply run away. You move, take the AoO (it's better than a full rounder) and get out of range of the the silence spell (only 20 feet) then try to cast a spell that can either remove the silence or immobilize the fighter.
Yeah, the biggest problem with just running away is the ground in the whole area was difficult terrain, and the fighter had a feat that let him charge through difficult terrain, so it was impossible for the wizard to get away (30 ft movement max, the fighter could charge up to 40 feet each round to catch up and attack)
while there are spells that don't require spell components or movement there is no spell that does not require sound.
Except for Air Bubble, Blend, Cleanse, Cloud Shape, Fluid Form, Forced Quiet, Gaseous Form, Haunted Fey Aspect, Hide from Animals, Horn of Pursuit, Ki Arrow, Lipstitch, Miasmatic Form, Mislead, Negative Reaction, Nine Lives, Peacebond, Pilfering Hand, Polypurpose Panacea, Scorching Ash Form, Shadow Anchor, Shadow Projection, Spark, Tracking Mark, Vomit Swarm and possibly others.
Verbal components require speech. If there is no verbal component needed then no sound is needed.
edit:All spells have at least one component, assuming no metamagic feats are in play.
All spells have at least one component, assuming no metamagic feats are in play.
Except Nine Lives!
All spells have at least one component, assuming no metamagic feats are in play.Except Nine Lives!
How do you even cast that spell? I am thinking that is an error. I will FAQ it later on today.
Good find though. :)
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Oh, that scenario? Yeah, that one's brutal. Silence is probably one of the best counters to that BBEG - every challenge has one or two things that if someone happens to be prepared with it, the encounter is completely changed. Nature of the game, and a good chance for a player to feel proud. :) If the challenge of an encounter is the same no matter what tactics or resources the party brings to the table, that's not fun for anyone - they may as well not be there. So whenever I hear of a party being prepared with just the right contingency to take the enemy apart, I consider that a good thing. :)