Does CON mod increase affect previous levels?


Rules Questions


One of my players asked me the following:

"When you increase ability scores, is everything retroactive? I know CON increases become retroactive in terms of hit point gain for all levels.
Does that apply to INT for skill points?
If I increase INT to 16 at lvl 4, do I get 4 extra skill points immediately?"

The rules for constitution say:
"If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly."

I never considered this affecting previous levels before, but now he's got me confused. I figured if your CON mod increased by +1 at lvl 4, then that would only affect lvl 4 and up. Does it actually give you 3 extra hp for lvls 1-3 as well?

Thanks.

Grand Lodge

CON is retroactive. INT is not.


yes it does.


Don Walker wrote:
CON is retroactive. INT is not.

int is retroactive in pathfinder.

Grand Lodge

Nicos wrote:
Don Walker wrote:
CON is retroactive. INT is not.
int is retroactive in pathfinder.

Where does it say this?


yes.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Don Walker wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Don Walker wrote:
CON is retroactive. INT is not.
int is retroactive in pathfinder.
Where does it say this?

Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics as appropriate. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.

FAQ/Errata
If I wear a headband of vast intelligence, do I get retroactive skill ranks for my Int increase in addition to the skill ranks associated with the item?
No. The skill associated with the magic item represents the "retroactive" skill ranks you'd get from the item increasing your Intelligence. You don't get the item's built-in skill ranks and another set to assign however you want.
Source

Unofficial Board Post
"All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up."
Source


yes.

I believe that all modifiers become retroactive after 24 hours.


Constitution changes affect all your levels, including those the character had attained before the change occurred.

Intelligence changes also function that way (so the character will get additional skill points for earlier levels).

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Don Walker wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Don Walker wrote:
CON is retroactive. INT is not.
int is retroactive in pathfinder.
Where does it say this?

Core Rulebook, Glossary:

PRD wrote:
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.

Emphasis mine.

I've also seen (but don't have links for) developers discussing how this was an intentional change in Pathfinder so make it easier to stat up NPCs, because you don't need to know what the NPC's INT was at each level - you can just multiply INT mod times level and have your skill points.

EDIT: All kinds of ninja'd.


from the PRD

Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.

edited: Ninja'd


It's a ninja-gathering!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Poor Don. Ambushed by rules ninjas. ;)


Thanks, gents! Very helpful.


seiken wrote:

One of my players asked me the following:

"When you increase ability scores, is everything retroactive? I know CON increases become retroactive in terms of hit point gain for all levels.
Does that apply to INT for skill points?
If I increase INT to 16 at lvl 4, do I get 4 extra skill points immediately?"

The rules for constitution say:
"If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly."

I never considered this affecting previous levels before, but now he's got me confused. I figured if your CON mod increased by +1 at lvl 4, then that would only affect lvl 4 and up. Does it actually give you 3 extra hp for lvls 1-3 as well?

Thanks.

On a related note, any CON damage also changes the characters current and total HP (Core Rulebook pg. 555). Spells such as Bear's Endurance and the Barbarian Rage feature also modify CON and change a character's HP.

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