Weapon and Shield Style Ranger

[Hector Gwath]

Looking to make one of these work... Has anyone got experience with them?

I was planning on using a Kukri to trigger Bashing Finish and any Critical feats I have as often as possible.

I feel as though Weapon and Shield style is more beneficial than TWF, seeing as that I can get Shield Master and Bashing Finish earlier. Also, I can ignore feats that would be generally needed to get them. Although, i would not be able to ignore the DEX prereqs of TWF...

Assuming 20 point buy, human, what should my stat distribution and feat choices be? We would start at level 2, and the campaign may very well go up to around 15...

Thanks all!

[Helikon]

I am playing a shoanti human ranger with Earthbraker and klar combo, maybe suboptimal, but style beats power in my book ;-)

[Hector Gwath]

Style... Hence my desire to go with a kukri, as opposed to a better high crit weapon. I was kind of going for a sort of commando vibe.

Going for something like this...

STR 14
DEX 15 (17)
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 13
CHA 8

traits
Armor Expert
Carefully Hidden

1 Finesse
1 TWF
3 Power Attack
5 Iron Will
7 ITWF
9 Improved Critical
11 Critical Focus
13 Staggering Critical
15 Improved Critical

Ranger Feats
2 improved shield bash
6 shield master
10 Bashing Finish
14 Shield Focus

Of course, I am willing to make a STR based build out of this, whatever makes it work. I just saw a similar build and basically copied it, dunno how effective it actually is.

[blackbloodtroll]

Double shield it. At 6th level, you can two weapon fight with two heavy shields without penalty.

[Hector Gwath]

I don't get why people recommend two shields. I see it fairly often on these boards. (often recommended by the same people).

1.) I'm a Ranger, so I get no benefit from weapon focus/specialization or Weapon Training.

2.) Shields have poor crit ranges that do not provide any benefit for critical feats, and in this case, Bashing Finish.

As far as I can see, the only benefit from two shields is that you can get double the bonus to AC (which I think most GM's would find dubious) and that with Shield Master, you can save some money... probably not worth the lack of critical feats.

Not to mention the stylistic issues i have with it: namely, I don't find it heroic or appropriate to a heroic fantasy setting. Maybe if you are playing joker/comic who fails at combat or is a coward...

I don't see it fitting for a sort of commando like character I am going for.

[Zerumm]

Helikon wrote:

I am playing a shoanti human ranger with Earthbraker and klar combo, maybe suboptimal, but style beats power in my book ;-)

Although I agree with the Thunder and Fang feat set to do that would be nice but it on its own is a little feat heavy as well for a non fighter.

[HaraldKlak]

Hector Gwath wrote:

I don't get why people recommend two shields. I see it fairly often on these boards. (often recommended by the same people).

People recommend it due to the part of 'not recieving any penalties to the attack rolls'. However, allowing dual wielding shields at all, and shield master on top of it, requires some very intentional interpretation of the rules (or rather lack of clear rules).

For your build, I would consider the TWF-style instead. While you would need to wait a few levels, for that sweet bashing finish, I fear that your damage is going to be too low with this build.
If you can expect to use your favored enemy bonus most of the time, then it might not be a problem.

[Hector Gwath]

HaraldKlak wrote:

Hector Gwath wrote:

I don't get why people recommend two shields. I see it fairly often on these boards. (often recommended by the same people).

People recommend it due to the part of 'not recieving any penalties to the attack rolls'. However, allowing dual wielding shields at all, and shield master on top of it, requires some very intentional interpretation of the rules (or rather lack of clear rules).

For your build, I would consider the TWF-style instead. While you would need to wait a few levels, for that sweet bashing finish, I fear that your damage is going to be too low with this build.
If you can expect to use your favored enemy bonus most of the time, then it might not be a problem.

I was considering Agile weapons and possibly the Guide archetype. However, I am fine being STR based... the problem is that i need to make room for improved shield bash, shield slam, shield master, and Bashing Finish with my regular feats... whereas right now i have Finesse, TWF, and ITWF.

I kinda feel like i would need to rework the whole feat build.

[Jubal Breakbottle]

Check out this old thread. I bookmarked it, because the sword and board dwarf appeals to my old school perspective.

cheers

[Helikon]

Actually it isn´t that Feat heavy. As a human you have it with level 3
Lv1 Weapon Focus (Earthbreaker) (Human)Weapon Focus (Klar)
Lv2 (Ranger)Two Weapon Fighting
Lv3 Thunder and Fang.
AND as a ranger you don´t need a high Dex, grabbing the two weapon fighting feats as ranger feats.
Huge Smile :-)

[evilash]

You should check out STR Ranger's Wild Stalker build. It's more focused on the shield than the blade, but still well worth a look.

[blackbloodtroll]

Two handing a Heavy Shield is a very strong option.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Do as you first intended, take the shield ranger, with the class feature to have shield for weapon enhance and shield at same time, you'll have the WBL curve blown after 6. Then go Brawler Fighter, shield and kukri are both close weapons.

You are looking for Shield Slam at 2, Shield Master at 6, free bullrush and count shield bonus as attack and damage specifically.
After 6, you can go for bashing finish but only 1 level early isn't that big of a deal, so pick up Brawler Fighter archetype.

Build Str 17(bonus), Dex 15, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 7
Bump Str first then dex/con depending on what kinda gear you get/survivability.
Take the Guide or Battle Scout archetypes, also mix in the Skirmisher/Trapper instead of spells...

Your going to use the shield as the primary weapon after 6, until then get a scimitar or the like, and the kukri as the off hand until you get bashing finish anyways, the crit range vs the higher damage shield is not gonna help much at low levels.

1st: Power attack, Imp Shield Bash;
2nd Shield slam(ranger);
3rd Imp bullrush(might as well get bonuses if you get it free);
5th TWF;
6th Shield Master;
7th Great Bullrush, Combat Expertise(fighter);
8th Imp Crit Kukri(fighter);
9th Crit Focus;
10th Imp Trip(fighter);
11th Felling Smash;
12th Bashing Finish(fighter);
13th Staggering Crit;
14th (if you increased dex x2 Imp TWF) if not, Gr Trip;
15th (back to ranger if you keep going, get another skirmish/trap ability) Cleaving Finish;

[voska66]

To do it I'd use 20 pt with stat as follows using a Human with the Dual Talent alternative racial trait.

STR 15 (17)
DEX 15 (17)
CON 14
INT 10
Wis 12
CHR 9

Since Weapon Shield style doesn't give you Improved or Greater TWF you need the higher Dex. With multiple attack you want damage bonuses so you will want strength. This also means you don't need to waste a feat on Weapon Finesse and this covers the loss of you Human Bonus feat. The ranger has 6 skill points already so you don't really need the Human skill points. At 4th level I'd boost Strength to 18 and at 8th and 12th I'd boost Dex to 19. I'd have dex at 19 via belt before then to qualify for Greater TWF fighting but at 12th I'd have raw stat. I don't trust magic items, lose the belt and the feat is useless. For casting I'd get headband of Wisdom. For casting if I could put the level 16 and 20 boost or buy a book to raise it if I really wanted to make permanent.

[Scray]

I've been playing a PFS char towards a similar build, admittedly less optimized, but going for Shield Slam and Shield Master.

So far it it's been fun and effective, my biggest problem is just the options, single attack with two hands vs two weapon fighting with power attack lines for both. Then to use a falcata with a light shield or eat the penalties with the falcata and use a large shield, or use a heavy shield and gladius? Lots of options available, at level 4 I haven't settled down yet so I'm carrying a lot of options around. :)

[Spacelard]

Doing the same in Jade Regent...
However I would dump DEX to 14 and focus on STR.
Go the TWF style route as you don't need DEX to fill any of the feat requirements and pick up the Shield feats when you get your normal feats as none of them have any stat requirements.

[voska66]

Spacelard wrote:

Doing the same in Jade Regent...

However I would dump DEX to 14 and focus on STR.
Go the TWF style route as you don't need DEX to fill any of the feat requirements and pick up the Shield feats when you get your normal feats as none of them have any stat requirements.

That's how I'd go too but you don't get Shield Master till 11th level where you get it at 6th with Weapon and Shield.