Hey forum!
Thanks for checking this thread.
I'm creating an Oracle/Bard for PF and PFS and using the "Clouded" curse for my character. As such, I begin with Darkvision 30', but cannot see any further than that normally.
I am not necessarily looking for any way to seize mechanical advantages that nullify my curse (though I'd certainly love to hear all options) ... but what I am most concerned of is mitigating it's effect for my character on the roleplaying level. Ie, if the DM says they're a castle on the hill it'll be troublesome if I need to rely on somebody else at the table to echo everything the GM indicates the party sees but is beyond 30 feet.
So far I have come up with 2 ways so far that helps with this:
1) Breadth of Experience -- for landmarks and structures and otherwise large static objects I can RP that my character has already been there, and therefore remembers basically where large things are and what they look like. "That castle probably looks a lot older now... the last time I passed by it was spanking new! Still had scaffolds up!"
2) Spyglass -- I would constantly be peeking through the spyglass to see things at distance. I don't think it could be used to make perception checks beyond my darkvision range (at least not good ones) but it would be a justification I'd see what the rest of the party sees at distance if I'm constantly peeping through the spyglass to get glimpses of things far away. The downside is spyglasses are 1000 gold, which is a LOT for a 1st level character to save up for something that has little more impact for the character than fluff. Magnifying glass and eyeglasses are also things I'll buy fluff-wise... but I don't expect them to really justify my character being able to perceive things outside my 30' darkvision range.
So... are there any items (magic or otherwise) that will help me role-play/mitigate my short-range of vision (mechanically advantageous or not?) the less costly the solution, the better -- but I'd of course like to hear any ideas!
Hire an NPC to guide you around, and tell you what's up ahead. A simple beggar boy/girl should cost a few coppers per day, and you'll be doing a good deed while you're at it. Or get a Familiar to do just that.
I'm pretty sure if you use a spyglass with the curse you would see 30 feet away in great detail. Unless there is a PFS ruling it should have no effect on seeing farther.
Already found "wonderous whippersnap" which is an inexpensive drink that improves darkvision by 5-15 feet for 1 hour, 1gp/pint.
Yeah, you can't use magic items to mitigate the effects of your curse, much less mundane ones.
Thank you Mojorat -- So you're saying a spyglass won't help me glimpse farther in PFS?
Any GMs out there want to weigh in on how they would interpret the Clouded Vision/Spyglass thing at their table?
VRMH -- that's a fine suggestion, but I don't think it would sit well with me putting children or commoners even in the kind of harms way the party will likely find itself, My build is not particularly equipped to defend them and I can't have all that blood on my hands. I could try to lean on a fellow party member, but it's a bit much to ask especially in the long run.
No idea, sorry. You'd probably be best off finding some sort of super-long blindsense, sometimes blindsense comes w/ long ranges. Tremorsense and Scent...not so much.
Congrats on choosing possibly THE most debilitating curse, and getting mediocre benefits in exchange for it! :P
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm playing a Fey character (non-PFS) with this curse and they just refuse to accept anything outside their field of vision exists as a certainty - just a possibility. And all these humans seem so good at predicting what possibility will be certainty - most curious.
As a DM I wouldn't let magic nor mundane methods to allow the oracle to see beyond the limit from whatever origin of vision they are using - so the spell Enter Image has possibilities but I would only allow the character to see 30 (or 60) from the image.
You have to suck it up and go with it. My clouded pfs oracle is 8th level. She is heavens, though she cannot see the stars, she loves dungeons but her powers work best outdoors. Desna, her patron, works in mysterious ways.
Stream... seeing as you seem to be speaking from some position of authority -- what curse would you select instead considering I have a Bard Build -- Tongues and Wasting are right out (Nobody can benefit from my music if they can't understand it, and wasting hurts charisma so that's horribly debilitating. Being deaf will also prevent me from performing -- so that leaves haunted, clouded, or Lame.
Given the reasons I cite above... I do not believe you fully thought my build through before offering your observation, though I thank you for it.
Is anyone of the mind that getting lame for a Gnome is more navigable, and if so -- why?
I was reticent to take lame because if my move was cranked down to 15, and the party needs to be within 30' of me to benefit from my music (AND screen me from enemies!!!) I'm basically an anchor the party is dragging around, tactically.
For the sake of argument if you read this and think lame is the better way to go -- how would you mitigate that?
A while back i was in a game where a friend was playing a Clouded Oracle. At the time I was playing a wizard, and as such we both were hanging out at the back. I would relay descriptions to her, but often not exactly what the DM just said, but putting my subjective spin on it.
I remember describing one unsavory NPC to her as "a particularly ugly monkey."
Another time. "They're sailing an oversised bathtub"
The Wizard was very cynical, and the Oracle quite naive, so as a pair they were amusing rather than tedious, with her taking his snarky observations at face value, until they got within 30ft. at least.
If you play up the character, it can keep the table from seeming slow.
|
I am not necessarily looking for any way to seize mechanical advantages that nullify my curse (though I'd certainly love to hear all options) ... but what I am most concerned of is mitigating it's effect for my character on the roleplaying level
That's exactly what it appears you're trying to do. Everytime the curse side effects are brought up you're asking for specific ways to bypass it.
I'm not sure if this item exists in pathfinder, but there was a magical map that'd map areas you'd been, etc and auto update where you were in relation to things... but seriously you need to understand that if you're playing a Oracle, the point of the class IS the limitation of the curses.
The curse and it's limits are restrictions and roleplaying gold.
Now that that's out of the way, if you want to negate the effects of curses, you can go with burnt from blood of angels that's just a -4 to attack roles and things are sorta painful for you at all times.
Movement is easily overcome by teleportation, boots of speed, etc, hell even wizard in the group casting a floating disk and you sitting in it. Mounts, etc.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
a gnome with lame might buy a riding dog to get places...
Stream... seeing as you seem to be speaking from some position of authority -- what curse would you select instead considering I have a Bard Build -- Tongues and Wasting are right out (Nobody can benefit from my music if they can't understand it, and wasting hurts charisma so that's horribly debilitating. Being deaf will also prevent me from performing -- so that leaves haunted, clouded, or Lame.
Given the reasons I cite above... I do not believe you fully thought my build through before offering your observation, though I thank you for it.
I would have suggested Lame.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Look at Legalistic in Blood of Demons? You don't get vision penalties, you just become someone that keeps their word to others. Honestly, not that hard.
Thank you Mojorat -- So you're saying a spyglass won't help me glimpse farther in PFS?
.
I'm saying you have no ability to see further than what the curse allows. Short of divine intervention the curse basically cannot be biased.
What good is mirrors reflecting light when the decree of the gods says your vision ends 30 feet away.
what I am most concerned of is mitigating it's effect for my character on the roleplaying level. Ie, if the DM says they're a castle on the hill it'll be troublesome if I need to rely on somebody else at the table to echo everything the GM indicates the party sees but is beyond 30 feet.
OK, so there is a level of this that is really about 'at game table' viability itself,
if there's a bunch of obvious stuff that is easy to convey (and there is no problem with repeating it, e.g. trying to maintain Stealth/Silence), it's just going to be a pain in the ass for EVERYBODY at the table for other players to keep having to repeat what the GM says.Of course, a certain aspect of that is properly representing that it IS a pain in the ass to verbally narrate every little detail you see to some blind guy.
You might want to consider using the various telepathic/communication spells as a means to facilitate EASIER communication, as well as avoid situations like Silence spells or intentional silence which would impede verbal communication. That doesn't really negate the penalties, but it should make it easier to rationalize 'fudging' some of the details (since you would just need another character to THINK of the stuff you need to be informed of).
Familiars as mentioned are a good option, but basically what they are is just an NPC.
(except you get a free Scry on them once you hit effective 13th level for the Familiar)
I can't remember the name of the spells that let you see thru another creature's eyes, but they would also be good.
If there are any other friendly NPCs, they can be used similarly...
In both cases, it's then a simple enough matter for the GM to say what the NPCs inform you of, and what they don't,
they don't need to repeat/rephrase EVERY bit of info, they can just say 'there is X hanging off the walls, and Blind Guy is informed', and just save certain rephrasings/mistakes for exceptional/random cases.
Some info will depend on COMPREHENSION of the PC/NPC helping you,
i.e. they Fail a Knowledge:Architecture/History check to say the Castle on the Horizon is an Ancient Osirioni style, you aren't going to know that fact unless another PC/NPC mentions that fact to you, which they may well not simply because they don't know that you (or the NPC helping you) don't know that. Even if you have a high Knowledge skill in the relevant area, you probably can't even make the check if the relevant details aren't being conveyed to you (which would probably require you to actively ASK: are we looking at Ancient Osirioni castles, with details like X, Y, Z?, which you don't really have logical motivation to ask 99% of the time).
I think to a certain extent there's no completeley avoiding the inconveniences,
and it realistically will mean a higher workload for the GM and other players,
but with planning ahead with the GM and other players, it can be 'managed',
while not reducing the actual downsides (of situational awareness) for your PC.
Maxing Perception will be nice so that you can still pass the DCs to pinpoint NPCs/stuff,
and even Skill Focus:Perception could be a good idea (negating Blind penalties),
you just will suffer full Concealment but that's not necessarily the worst thing in the world.
(if you passed the check to notice an NPC, and know it's location even though you can't see it,
(I think you should be able to use creature-targetting spells on it, although I'm now 100% sure on that RAW)
(you should have Line of Effect if not Line of Sight)
Thank you Mojorat -- So you're saying a spyglass won't help me glimpse farther in PFS?
.I'm saying you have no ability to see further than what the curse allows. Short of divine intervention the curse basically cannot be biased.
What good is mirrors reflecting light when the decree of the gods says your vision ends 30 feet away.
+1 for this, one could argue that the line 'Your eyes are obscured' would suggest the curse could be mitigated by normal optical lenses, but I don't think that's really justifiable based on RAW.
I WOULD hazard that the 'Your eyes are obscured' line IS applicable only to your own eyes, so if you are Scrying or seeing thru another eyes, the limit wouldn't apply (but then I wouldn't apply the benefits of the curse, either).
There's also a Bard Archetype: Sea Singer, that gains a Familiar at 2nd level,
no other Feats or multiclassing required, although you may not like what it gives up/gains otherwise.
|
If a bardic performance has audible components, the targets must be able to hear the bard for the performance to have any effect, and such performances are language dependent. A deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use a bardic performance with an audible component. If he fails this check, the attempt still counts against his daily limit. Deaf creatures are immune to bardic performances with audible components.
Nowhere in there does it say that the Performance has to be understood...just heard. The Bardic Performance for Inspire as an example...even if you are blabbering on in some weird tongue that nobody understands, the magic is from the performance, not the understanding of the performance.
At the very least you can flavor it where the party does better in combat just to get you to shut the hell up.
Also, I might suggest that the Clouded Vision curse isnt that terrible in PFS.
Most of the adventures that I ran with MY oracle were in some sort of cave, ruin, castle, citadel, building, or town.
Plenty to see within 30', and then later within 60'.
Trust me, it NEVER hindered a single thing I did.
|
You can't use any magic to get around a curse in pfs. I play a haunted oracle, and it doesn't even matter if I use my bag of holding where things are automatically on the top of the bag, it still makes her a turn to find things because that's how it works. Besides, I think it defeats the purpose of an oracle to not have their curse. If you don't want to deal with the curse play a cleric.
I got the impression if the other party didn't need the language, they would phrase it NOT language dependent. but I appreciate your take on it.
I realize in light of this thread 'lame' is MUCH easier to navigate - but the flavor of clouded is so much cooler RP-wise. more than anything I wanted to get around having to 'telegraph' everything, or be able to give myself some spacial awareness in the outdoors.
I am really almost in love with the complexities of the curse, but it still gives me some pause.
Thanks for all the help, guys.
play a reactive melee oriented oracle. now your blindness pays off. also, you have other senses too, touch, taste, smell and hearing. look at anime as a means to justify how you could use these senses, one of which is guaranteed to work, usually smell.
I love the oracle
My pfs oracle 8 has a reach weapon. Her AC is normally insane as well so when the baddies come to pick on the poor dim-sighted girl they struggle
gnome dual Haunted/Deaf oracle i have i find is actually harder to play....he is surrounded by moaning ghosts that he cant hear. thats in CC so fits
Lame nature oracle in JR he is a gnome so has a wolf and bypasses any curses that way
My Nagaji paladin/oracle in PFS has tongues and sings Andorran freedom songs in battle
Love your curse as a gift