Hmm. I think it is safe to say that no one is going to drop 25GP on water unless they are aware of what it can do. Yes, I realize this is not always going to be true, but I would never force that on a player. I may even award bonus XP to a player that did something like drink holy water or splashed it on an orc or something. I like when players choose to role play a little ignorance.
Anything the PC spends money on, I would presume the knowledge of its use is part of the exchange. Unless, the player chooses to be ignorant, or I sold it to them as part of an RP session and lied to them. I would only use that second portion for story reasons and only if the PC has never encountered the item before.
That is my two copper.
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If someone buys an item, generally he has plenty of time to ask the vendor how it works (as in your first spoiler) and learn all of the information listed in Equipment for that item. I presume most adventurers know what a dead body looks like and that it shouldn't be walking around. He wouldn't have any further knowledge about undead without Knowledge (religion).
Assumed knowledge is rampant in our games. Oftentimes it is assumed that a passed Knowledge check means total knowledge of that monster (which is clearly not the case). It's a hard line to distinguish what a player knows and what the PC knows based on their background.
For example, trolls are giants which are humanoids which means they are susceptible to spells that affect humanoids (charm person, say). Common knowledge or requires a Knowledge check? Is that knowledge that would be known by a DC 15 check or should it be 20+? It's all very subjective and up to DM decree. Good luck!
"Common knowledge" should be dc 10 or less, that way anyone can roll to see if they know it (knowledge checks can be made untrained if the dc is 10 or less).
The more common it is based on character background and experience, the easier it should be. Have a fighter who grew up with a religion that's actively against undead in an area rife with them? Might be a dc 2 or 3. Have a city rat who spent all his life picking pockets, and has never seen an undead in his life? Might not even get a roll, or make it dc 10 to give him a 50% chance to have heard that undead are harmed by holy water (adjusted by his in mod), but he'd never know which undead, how to use the holy water, or even know the difference between a zombie and another undead.
"Common knowledge" should be dc 10 or less, that way anyone can roll to see if they know it (knowledge checks can be made untrained if the dc is 10 or less).
The more common it is based on character background and experience, the easier it should be. Have a fighter who grew up with a religion that's actively against undead in an area rife with them? Might be a dc 2 or 3. Have a city rat who spent all his life picking pockets, and has never seen an undead in his life? Might not even get a roll, or make it dc 10 to give him a 50% chance to have heard that undead are harmed by holy water (adjusted by his in mod), but he'd never know which undead, how to use the holy water, or even know the difference between a zombie and another undead.
One could argue that such a fighter that grew up in an area with a religion that's actively against undead should put points in Knowledge: religion to reflect that background (and additionally might want to get it as a class skill somehow). There are various ways to go about determining what a PC knows for sure (lower the DC or raise the skill bonus).
I'm of the opinion that a DC should be set regardless of what the surrounding environs dictate and let the skill checks be modified based on what the PCs or NPCs should know based on background or flavor. YMMV.
"Common knowledge" should be dc 10 or less, that way anyone can roll to see if they know it (knowledge checks can be made untrained if the dc is 10 or less).
The more common it is based on character background and experience, the easier it should be. Have a fighter who grew up with a religion that's actively against undead in an area rife with them? Might be a dc 2 or 3. Have a city rat who spent all his life picking pockets, and has never seen an undead in his life? Might not even get a roll, or make it dc 10 to give him a 50% chance to have heard that undead are harmed by holy water (adjusted by his in mod), but he'd never know which undead, how to use the holy water, or even know the difference between a zombie and another undead.
One could argue that such a fighter that grew up in an area with a religion that's actively against undead should put points in Knowledge: religion to reflect that background (and additionally might want to get it as a class skill somehow). There are various ways to go about determining what a PC knows for sure (lower the DC or raise the skill bonus).
I'm of the opinion that a DC should be set regardless of what the surrounding environs dictate and let the skill checks be modified based on what the PCs or NPCs should know based on background or flavor. YMMV.
That seems reasonable, and I agree with you. Just remember that if the dc is above 10, then you can no longer roll a knowledge check untrained (you have to have a skill point to even have a chance of knowing that bit of knowledge). So common knowledge - seemingly by definition - would be common, i.e. no skill points needed to make a skill check and therefore a dc of 10 or less.
Also remember that you can take 10 on skill checks outside of combat situations. Like when you're outfitting. If you didn't dump int you have all common knowledge.
Once you make the check it's character knowledge. If you take 10 on knowledge religion when deciding what to pack for a bout of tomb raiding and know that zombies and skeletons are the most common undead and their DRs and that holy water works on all undead you won't suddenly forget why you're carrying around holy water and a warhammer when you actually encounter undead.
That's an interesting take on it. We don't use it that way (one roll for information on multiple enemies of the same category...undead for example) but I can see the value of such a thing. We always make separate rolls for each monster of a given type, i.e., skeleton, zombie, etc. (but just one and done).
Ultimately, it is the DM's call as to what is common knowledge (DC 10 or lower) and what requires learned knowledge (skill ranks). Good reminder about the take 10 option, though. Thanks!
