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Hey everyone,
We will soon be starting a new campaign at first level. My DM wishes to play a character whose fighting style would reflect Bane, from the Dark Knight Rises, punching hard and breaking bones with unarmed low blows.
The obvious answers were a monk or an unarmed fighter ; the latter has been chosen for it is closer to the character's background. But since there was no low-level option to cripple enemies outside of magic or rogue levels, I wrote the following feat.
It is meant as a balanced replacement for Stunning Fist, accessible both to monk and low level unarmed grapplers as a whole.
I will look toward writting an alchemist archetype concept using acupuncture, and receiving this feat.
Is it balanced, am I missing something ? Posting it quickly there, and looking forward for your insight on any issue I may have overlooked.
Dislocating Strike (Combat)
Your mastery of anatomy allows you to cripple your foes by aiming at vital points, twisting jointures, fracturing bones and breaking spines.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Wis 13, Heal 1 rank.
Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make an unarmed attack roll, or a grapple check dealing unarmed damage (thus, a failed attack roll or grapple check ruins the attempt). In addition to dealing damage normally, you inflict 1 point of Str or Dex damage, up to your ranks in the Heal skill. At level 4, and every 4 levels later, this ability damage increases by 1 (up to 6 at 20th level) – on a confirmed critical hit, or by performing an especially brutal blow against the creature you are grappling (effectively releasing the grapple as a free action), you may deal double this ability damage. A successful Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Str modifier) halves this ability damage. Unlike normal ability damage, this damage can be healed by a Heal check with the same DC. Each successful check heals 1 point of ability damage, +1 for every 5 by which your check exceeds the DC.
You may attempt a dislocating strike a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, plus 1 for every four levels you attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot suffer ability damage this way. Dislocating Strike is treated in any way as the Stunning Fist feat for the purposes of feats and class features ; including bonuses to save DCs and meeting prerequisites of feats (like Mantis Style or Stunning Pin).
Special: A monk who receives Stunning Fist at 1st level may choose to gain Dislocating Strike instead. A monk may attempt a dislocating strike a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier plus half his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk.
So at 20th level he can do 26 points of STR or DEX damage on a failed save?
I see what you are going for here, but I cannot really say that I find this feat balanced. It is an interesting concept though, so let me see if I can throw in my thoughts on the matter. Lets use Stunning Fist here as a comparison.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next turn). A stunned character drops everything held, can’t take actions, loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, and takes a –2 penalty to AC. You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned.
Special: A monk receives Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A monk may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk.
First, Dislocating Strike prerequisites are too low. I know you want this available at level one, but that should only be possible if you trade it for Stunning Fist. You have only one ability requirement, but that is a fair trade with the extra feat Improved Grapple. However, Heal 1 is nowhere near a fair trade for a +8 BAB. That would be fine if Dislocating Strike was far less powerful, but as I cover below, it is not. To keep with the feel you are going for, I would have to make it Heal 8. I know this keeps it far out of reach of most level ones, but that is the way it has to be.
Second, the negative effect of this feat becomes more powerful as you level while Stunning Fist always stays the same. Also, this feat allows you to deal twice the ability damage in some circumstances. This is really powerful for any ability. Just a -2 Strength gives an enemy a penalty to all attacks for the rest of the fight. And what would keep this effect from stacking with itself to just be way to strong at higher levels? By level 20, you are cutting your enemies by three to hit with every successful Dislocating Strike. Way too strong. Try a flat -2 and it can only effect a single target once. Twice at most, but in that case, it would effect Strength the first time and Dexterity the second. No doubling on a Crit or released grab.
Third, Dislocating Strike's save still allows half effect on a fail? I wouldn't think that is in keeping with Stunning Fist ether. Maybe this one is arguable, but my gut says no. Especially not if the DC is based off Strength. I am okay with the Strength DC as it cuts down on the regrettable MADness of the Monk, but it means the DC will be much higher. That nixes any possibility of a failed save effect.
Third point five? The healing thing is good, and I would keep that in. However, you must realize that this does not lower the value of this feat's effect. There won't be many situations where this is a boon to monsters crippled by your PC. They probably won't live long enough to get healing. The only reason to leave it in is so you can give Dislocating Strike to NPC's, and the PC's can heal their own ability wounds.
Fourth, Wisdom modifier plus times per day? Even with the limiters I suggested above, Dislocating Strike is as good as Stunning Fist. You cannot give it more times per day without having to drastically increase its prerequists. I wouldn't recommend it at all. Once per day per four levels or once per Monk level.
Well, that is all I have to say. I know, this is pretty far from what you wanted, but this feels a lot closer to balanced. Ultimately, you can grant your Bane character Dislocating Strike as you described it if you want. That is the priviledge of being the GM. That is my two copper.
EDIT: hunstonj makes a good suggestion. This may work better as a feat tree instead of a replacement for Stunning Fist. You may even want to consider making it part of a Style Tree though that would be far more balancing than I would want to do. It would allow it to be more powerful though.
Ahh, well the verbiage says "up to your ranks in heal." A cahracter at 20th level can have 20 ranks in Heal, plus the 6 from the feat, so...
May want to remove that bit.
Have you looked at the Jawbreaker/Bonebreaker/Neckbreaker line of feats from UC? They seem to be doing the desired trick, especially with a Maneuver Master or Tetori.
Otherwise, given the character is going Unarmed Fighter, turning this into a style chain will let him start at 1st level with it and still grow into more power later.
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So at 20th level he can do 26 points of STR or DEX damage on a failed save?
It's a maximum of 12 at level 20, actually. The skill ranks limit is meant to say that you may not deal than 1 Str or Dex damage on a single strike at 1st level if you have 1 rank ; nor can you deal more than 4 Str or Dex damage at 4th level if you have 4 ranks. I fail to understand the calculation you did to obtain a 26 damage.
A 20th level wizard may very well deal the same damage on a ranged touch attack, twice per round on a successful quickened maximized ray ; including the "half damage" mention.Neckbreaker provides a 2d6 damage at level 12 (average 7 + possible Constitution damage) ; at which point Dislocating Strike as written now would provide you at best 8 Str or Dex damage on a critical hit or by voluntarily releasing a grapple after a successful check, effectively giving yourself a crippling penalty on the fly since losing a grapple is NEVER in your best interest unless the penalty you deal is worth taking the risk.
About the once per round limit, it is still there.
I have to disagree on the fact this feat is supposedly better or even remotely equal to Stunning Fist. A successful stunning fist means you lose your round, are disarmed, lose your AC's dexterity bonus AND get a -2 penalty to AC ; this one effectively provides you with a penalty to attack and damage.
What seems obvious to me now is the double ability damage on a crit or a broken grapple. It is way too good. I will probably make it a +50% instead, so at level 12 you may deal 4 Str damage once per round, up to 6 in the right conditions ; 3 if saved, most probably 6 or 7 times per day. Again, the same wizard is doing way worse in a single round, namely an unavoidable -6 (No save) + 1d6+5 damage (Fort half), so a potential 17 Str damage on a single round, more probably 10 if saved on an average roll. He does it less often per day but hurts a lot more, and easier.
Believe me when I say I did my research beforehand on how to play in such fashion according to RAW, and that I perfectly understand the inherent balancing points of the original Stunning Fist feat. The healing point is not a balance tool since I am perfectly conscious that it is mainly meant for PCs to recover from NPC attacks ; and this feat's effects are nowhere near comparable to Stunning Fist (especially more if I make the bonus +50% instead of +100%, which I admit is truly necessary).
As another example, the "pressure points" ninja trick works in a similar fashion, dealing 1 point of Str or Dex on EVERY sneak attack and without any saving throw straight at level 2 for the price of a ninja trick ; which means a ninja may badly cripple her targets when hasted, and/or TWFing, and/or simply by shooting a lot of ranged sneak attacks, or both at the same time.
I'd adjust the save to use the users Wisdom modifier, not Strength. Wisdom denotes the accuracy of the applied knowledge. Hitting someone really hard in a nerve center is one thing, but that doesn't mean you did it right. Using Wisdom allows the user to apply both force and accuracy simultaneously into a maneuver that's more difficult to resist.
Also, I can't think of anything that does a flat X amount of attribute damage (save for 1 point). The damage should be randomized. Maybe increase the damage in increments. Start at 1 point, like the Nina Trick (because if a 2nd level ninja can only 1 point, why do you get to 4 points at 1st level), and increase the amount from there. 1d3, 1d4, 1d6... by 20th level maybe you can inflict 2d4 points of attribute damage.
And even 1d4 points is something that should give you pause, that's not a light amount of damage when it comes to attributes. Inflicting a single attribute point on something is a scary thing, players and NPCs should worry when a guy is capable of that stuff.
I've brought PC parties to their knees with simple maximized or empowered enfeeblement spells, because remember, a 0 Strength or Dexterity is 24 hours of instant paralysis. Coup de grace generally follows.
I don't think its very over-powered. Remember, that 1 point of strength damage does nothing at all.
Compare this feat to something like the Demoralize action or Dazzling Display. Its pretty trivial to get a massive intimidate bonus to considering the low DC of Demoralize. A demoralized creature essentially suffers -4 strength and a penalty to saves.
Admittedly, damage will mean more in a long fight, but Dazzling Display affects more targets.
I think the wis+1/level uses is too much though, since that is more than stunning fist gives. I feel that the save DC should be based on wisdom since this is supposed to be primarily a monk feat.
It actually could use a good buffing and rewording... Pretty much I am Dotting. I have a feat tree that might help you out. It effectively allows you to trade your unarmed damage for double Non-lethal damage or half ability damage to STR or DEX.
I don't often dip my hand at house rules, but how about something like this?
Way of the Brutal Warrior
While using this style, every time a check to maintain a grapple succeeds by 10+, or a bludgeoning unarmed strike scores a critical hit, no more than once per round per opponent, the victim takes 1 (+1 at +4 BAB and every +4 thereafter) point of Str or Dex damage. The victim can make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + half character level + Str bonus) for half (round down, min 0).
While using this style, gain +2 vs feints and distractions, and a +2 on unarmed critical confirmation rolls.
Brutal Warrior Badassitude
When an opponent takes ability damage from the Brutal Warrior style, they must also make a Will save (DC 10 + half character level + Str bonus). If failed they are Nauseated for 1d4 rounds, if succeeded they are Sickened for 1d4 rounds.
While using this style, gain an additional +2 vs feints and distractions, and an additional +2 on unarmed critical confirmation rolls.
Brutal Warrior Asskickery
While using this style, make a grapple attempt/maintain as a full round action to apply the damage/effects of the Brutal Warrior style. If it succeeds by over 10, add +2 to the save DCs and an additional +2 for every 5 higher past that.
While using this style, gain an additional +2 vs feints and distractions, and an additional +2 on unarmed critical confirmation rolls.
(EDIT: Sorry, on review looks like OP was looking for review/critique, not brainstorming the concept further..)
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I am always welcoming input, even in the form of extanded concept, but the original goal is and remains to create a single low-level, evolutive and balanced feat allowing a character to cripple his target without using magic, rogue talents or rage powers. Basically, a Stunning "Breaking" Fist variation. The current "Xbreaker" feat tree is still usable with this feat, and provides options that may be saved against easier, but are also more rewarding and don't require you to lose your grip to be efficient.
The Wisdom + 1 per X levels is intended design : by the time a martial character outside of monk may select Stunning Fist, he is able to use it a minimum twice per day (level 8), and a 1st level wharacter using the Dislocating Strike feat will most likely have a 14 Wis max, thus being able to use it twice per day at 1st level.
I made the check Wis-based. The Str-based check was a leftover from another existing power's variation. I tried reducing the bonus from a critical hit or released grapple to 50% bonus rounded up ; and I limited the total damage dealt on a blow limited to your ranks in the Heal skill (so a maximum of 1 point at 1st level, 1+50%rddup=2 at 2nd level, 2+50%=3 at 4th level, 3+50%rddup=5 at 8th level... before saving throw, of course ; if saved, it becomes 1/2=1 point at 1st level, 2/2=1 at 2nd level, 3/2rdddwn=1 at 4th level, 5/2rdddwn=2 at 8th level).
Now it may be a bit too low. If the check is Wis-based, martials will suffer a lot on this easy saving throw, especially since it's aiming at Fortitude. Monks have at the same time an advantage (on Wisdom score) and a penalty (harder to grapple and more dangerous to release it). I'll maybe keep the double damage on a critical or released grapple ; as it is now way easier to save against.
It would become a maximum of 1 point at 1st level, 2 at 2nd level, 4 at 4th level, 6 at 8th level... before saving throw ; if saved, it becomes 1/2=1 point at 1st level, 2/2=1 at 2nd level, 4/2rdddwn=2 at 4th level, 6/2rdddwn=3 at 8th level.
On a normal hit : 1 point at 1st level, 2 at 4th level, 3 at 8th level... before saving throw ; if saved, it becomes 1/2=1 point at 1st, 2/2=1 at 4th, 3/2=1 at 8th level.
At 8th level, it's 3 Str or Dex damage on a successful critical hit/grapple release + successful saving throw, or on a simple hit with failed saving throw (unless saved, at which point it becomes 1 damage), most likely 5 times per day for a fighter. Dealing an average 1 point of ability damage once per round 5/day (up to 6 as part of a 20x2 critical hit or by releasing a grappled creature AND if said creature fails a Fortitude saving throw) is hardly game breaking in my opinion, similar to what a poison would do at worst, and what a spell rolling average damage would do at best (a maximized Ray of Enfeeblement with 22 Int would have a 17 DC saving throw and 10 Str damage before feats (add +1 or +2 to the DC), while Dislocating Strike with 18 Wis would have a 18 DC saving throw and deal -at best- 6 ability damage, most likely 3).
So, here is the feat, rewritten with a Wisdom-based DC and clearer mechanics.
Dislocating Strike (Combat)
Your mastery of anatomy allows you to cripple your foes by aiming at vital points, twisting jointures, fracturing bones and breaking spines.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Wis 13, Heal 1 rank.
Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make an unarmed attack roll, or a grapple check dealing unarmed damage (thus, a failed attack roll or grapple check ruins the attempt). In addition to dealing damage normally, you inflict 1 point of Str or Dex damage. At level 4, and every 4 levels later, this ability damage increases by 1 (up to 6 at 20th level) – on a confirmed critical hit, or by performing an especially brutal blow against the creature you are grappling (effectively releasing the grapple as a free action after your grapple check), you deal double ability damage. The ability damage dealt on a single strike can never exceed your current ranks in the Heal skill. A successful Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier) halves this ability damage (minimum 1). Unlike normal ability damage, this damage can be healed by a Heal check with the same DC. Each successful check heals 1 point of ability damage, +1 for every 5 by which your check exceeds the DC.
You may attempt a dislocating strike a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, plus 1 for every four levels you attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot suffer ability damage this way. Dislocating Strike is treated in any way as the Stunning Fist feat for the purposes of feats and class features ; including bonuses to save DCs and meeting prerequisites of feats (like Mantis Style or Stunning Pin).
Special: A monk who receives Stunning Fist at 1st level may choose to gain Dislocating Strike instead. A monk may attempt a dislocating strike a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier plus one more time at level 2 then every two levels later, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk.