I'll start out by saying that I enjoy the Magus class immensely. My first D&D character ever was a fighter/sorcerer eldritch knight, so a base class that represents the whole magic knight field draws me in like a bear to honey.
That said, my DM has been speaking to me about concerns about the somewhat unbalancing nature of the class. My character is currently a 5th level Bladebound magus, and now we've both come to see certain unbalancing qualities.
First, the Imbue Weapon ability. On it's own, it's a great way to let magus' be as effective as other melee orientated classes by turning normal weapons to magic ones, and scales nicely as well. But adding that to the Bladebound archetype, my magus can find themselves wielding a +4 bastard sword during combat (+2 regular enhancement, +2 added through the imbue ability). I can even change it around so that they're wielding a +2 Flaming and Frost Bastard Sword, adding even more damage.
Speaking of damage, there's also the Spellstrike feature. Theoretically speaking, a magus could load up on only 1st level touch attack spells like Shocking Grasp and Corrosive Touch, using Spellstrike in combination with Imbue Weapon for some seriously gaming breaking damage - at 5th level, a single spellstrike with Shocking Grasp and the Imbued weapon Black Blade can deal 5d6 electricity, 1d6 fire, 1d6 cold, and the base weapon damage from a +2 weapon (Which can be turned elemental as well using the Black Blade's pool points).
Add into that Spell Recall, which can effectively allow a magus to recast Shocking Grasp up to his point limit. Meaning against an enemy without electricity resistance or immunity, a magus could effectively spam serious damage against any target they come across. Yes, the Bladebound Magus has a slightly lower pool than a regular one, but the Extra Arcane Pool feat is effective in negating this error - considering the bonus combat feats they get as well, investing in that feat comes as a no brainer.
Am I over thinking this? Am I missing any glaring weaknesses in the class as combat is concerned? Can anyone offer any advice to balance things out?
The Magus can unload some serious damage but can only do it a few times a day. In a campaign like Kingmaker where you only have an encounter or two a day they really shine, but when you are slogging through a long dungeon not so much.
Black Blades are only as powerful as the GM decrees. It is an intelligent item, which has its own alien agenda.
Playing someones character via GM fiat will alienate your players asap. Bladebound might be powerful, but I seriously doubt they can top a barb, summoner, or even a optimized fighter.
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Black Blades are only as powerful as the GM decrees. It is an intelligent item, which has its own alien agenda.Playing someones character via GM fiat will alienate your players asap. Bladebound might be powerful, but I seriously doubt they can top a barb, summoner, or even a optimized fighter.
A Black Blade is not someone's character. It is an intelligent item which is choosing to work with the Magus, who has given up some of his magical ability to wield it. However, this all depends on how it has been played up to this point. They are getting more power than a normal magus, but at the cost of losing a certain measure of control over the character's destiny.
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At level 5 you can only use the imbue buff twice per day. Magus in my mind is kind of the ultimate short distance sprinter character. They're extremely good in the vacuum of one combat, but start to get weaker and weaker as the daily utility wears down. That's said they make awesome BBEG's especially if the BBEG also has a spooky black blade awhoooo!!! Also if you ever fight lighting resistance/immune mobs you're kind of invalidated as anything other than a flank buddy with some sort of half decent striker functionality.
Also it's probably worth noting that about 4-9 or so is kind of where the Magus shines in my mind, but again he's never one to satisfy the ladies always spent too early ='[.
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A Black Blade is not someone's character. It is an intelligent item which is choosing to work with the Magus, who has given up some of his magical ability to wield it. However, this all depends on how it has been played up to this point. They are getting more power than a normal magus, but at the cost of losing a certain measure of control over the character's destiny.Black Blades are only as powerful as the GM decrees. It is an intelligent item, which has its own alien agenda.Playing someones character via GM fiat will alienate your players asap. Bladebound might be powerful, but I seriously doubt they can top a barb, summoner, or even a optimized fighter.
The Blackblade archtype also decreases your arcane pool total, and it's worth noting that a Blackblade generally isn't that far in strength above the average available weapon for that level at high levels(To be fair I'm talking about the levels that don't see much play 15+) it's generally weaker outside of special abilities. The true hidden power is you don't have to pay for the sword, thus it's kind of the ultimate PFS archtype!
Also your Blackblade isn't generally going to make you do something super crazy as they have to have the same alignment as the Character. Though that can only limit GM creativity so much =P.
you just named off the base magus abilities. Do you mean the magus is overpowered? Because yes, it can be DEADLY! However, one common issue I run into is d8 hit dice and AC. Without Mirror Image, I've dropped many times.
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...my DM has been speaking to me about concerns about the somewhat unbalancing nature of the class. My character is currently a 5th level Bladebound magus, and now we've both come to see certain unbalancing qualities...
...Am I over thinking this? Am I missing any glaring weaknesses in the class as combat is concerned? Can anyone offer any advice to balance things out?
Does your DM allow wizards, clerics, druids (or other tier 1 primary casters) in the campaign? Then no, the magus is not overpowered. Those are class abilities you listed are designed to help the magus keep up with the damage potentials of other primary pointy stick users.
& It sounds like your DM is concerned with the magus' damage output, so i ran a little comparison between three classes on melee without optimization (other than giving the magus very high strength.)
So without further ado, let's compare the melee damage output potentials of three 7th level characters: a barbarian, a druid, and a magus.
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1.
if you give a barbarian 18 str, +2 weapon (something that a black blade magus has at the same level) and add rage & power attack.
they get a +13/+8 to hit with a damage range of 15 - 24 per hit. with a crit damage range between 30 - 58 per hit.
per round, assuming both attacks hit, minimum is 30 and max is 116 with both crits + max rolls on damage. (note: that this is not optimized with additional feats or rage abilities)
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2.
druid using Wild Shape (shaped as a tiger - they get pounce & grab for free) & a wolf companion.
druid will also they get for free (in tiger shape) :
-->grab = free grab w/o provoking aoo on successful hit
-->pounce = full attack on a charge
for enhancements we'll only cast the Magic Fang spell for companion, and enhance the druid with a Greater Magic Fang (and for argument's sake we'll imbue all his/her attacks with a +1, instead of the +2 for one type of attack) spell. and for argument's sake we'll set his strength score slightly above average. a 12 strength.
this way, you should note all of the druid's attacks are at +10 to hit, with a +4 to damage.
claws do 1d8 each and the bite does 2d6. so assuming all attacks hit, 10-24 for claws & 6-16 for bite. that's 16 - 40 per round total. (without crits. crits would double that damage)
the animal companion's to hit value is a +12 (BAB+4, Str 13[+1:ability score increase][+2:str/dex bonus][+7:str bonus as 7th level wolf animal companion] & magic fang +1)
the animal companion's dmg output is 1d8+8, which works out to 9-16 per round, again assuming all attacks hit with it doubling on crits.
per round, a druid character dishes out 25 - 56 damage. (output doubling on crits)
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3.
a magus with black blade archetype, scimitar and power attack with a str score of 20.
gives them a +10 to hit. (BAB +5, str +5, black blade +2 and power attack -2)
with damage of 1d6 + 11 (str+5, bb +2, pa +4) roughly works out to 12 - 17 per hit and doubling on crits.
you'll also note that in order to spell strike effectively they have to get their spell out. (if they fail their concentration roll, they are not privy to an extra attack or the extra damage that hitting with the spell allows.)
d20 + 7 + 5 = concentration | dc 15 + double spell level | 45% chance of spell failure for 3rds | 35% chance of spell failure for 2nds | 25% chance of spell failure for 1sts
if the spell is successfully cast, the highest damage potential for a 7th level magus is a shocking grasp spell with intensified metamagic feat & free empower metamagic feat as per magus arcana (1/day) that would bump up the damage to a 10d6. {crit x 2}
if we are assuming all melee & spell hits, the damage would range from 39 -> 124. understand that this can only be done 1/day.
if both melees crit (which makes the spell crit as well) the damage would range from 68 -> 188. also that this can only be done 1/day.
now that we understand the potential for damage a magus is capable of with one round of attacks once per day, let's discuss his/her effectiveness outside of that one attack.
since we are assuming all melee & spell hits, for an average Magus spell, damage ranges from 29 -> 64 per round. or 58 -> 128 on crits.
*if the spell hits but one melee misses, damage ranges from 17 -> 47. doubled on crits.
finally, keep in mind that at best, a magus has a 25% of success for critical hits. (gained from using a limited use 'keen' ability) this means that 1/4 attacks have a good chance at achieving critical hits.
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Ok, so now that we all understand the numbers, let's see how it works in game play...
Let's say in 4 rounds of combat, we assume all attacks hit, and none are criticals:
3. Magus:
Statistically speaking the magus should pass concentration twice and gets off two spells in those 4 rounds. That's 6 regular attacks and two of them are supplemented by a spell. 6 attacks at 12 - 17 damage is 72 -> 102 plus spell damage of 10 -> 60.
So in 4 rounds, magus regularly would deal 82 -> 162 points of damage.
That works out to 21 -> 40.5 per round.
2. Druid:
If the druid prepares for combat in advance and casts Magic Fang, Greater (lasts 1 hour/level so it should be cast early in the day) on himself, the first round of combat could be spent either casting Magic Fang on the animal companion, or Wild Shaping to a fighting beast form.
That leaves about 2 rounds of fighting, but for the sake of argument, let's say only the Wild Shaping action is taken to bump attacking rounds up to 3 rounds.
the Druid's average damage would be 24 -> 53 (remember the -1 for not casting on the companion) x 3 rounds of fighting.
Output is then 72 -> 165 total damage for the 4 rounds.
Roughly, output per round should work out to be 18 -> 41.25.
1. Barbarian:
Fighting for 4 rounds at 2 attacks each round is 8 attacks.
Each hit results in 15 -> 24 damage which is about 120 -> 192 for the 4 rounds of combat.
Per round average works out to 30 -> 48 damage.
Yes I did not account for critical hits, (and the explosive critical damage potential for magus when a spell crits) but the magus is no better suited to actualizing critical hits than a barbarian with a Keen Edge spell cast by a friendly caster.
I hope this helps.
Edit: I neglected to calculate the -2 penalty to all attacks that a magus takes for being able to Spell Combat. Thus it makes all the magus' attacks at a +8 and not a +10 like I originally wrote. It wouldn't make a difference in the all attacks hit in the 4 rounds I outlined above, but in actual game play, the magus would hit a lot less often.
I'm curious, what other characters are in your current party?
How many battles do you get into per day?
Are you playing an adventure path?
Dot.
In the carrion crown adventure my blade bound magus is in, he is one of the major damage dealers in the party. Although his damage is still less than the party's rogue, and since for the longest time we didn't have a tank, yours truly got to fill that position and get dropped in nearly every fight. I will admit he didn't get dropped in every fight, in those ones he was just grappled and ground and pounded.
Despite what my party may think a magus is not a fighter with magic. It's a caster that can fight. He's almost died many times just because of finicky dice or my own efforts at protecting my party. And don't let the rogue tell you otherwise, the lying hair ball.
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At level 5 you can only use the imbue buff twice per day.
Explain, please.
So far as I know, you can do the one minute "Add +X enhancement to your weapon" for one point from your Arcane Pool, as long as you have at least one point left in your Arcane Pool to begin with.
And the Arcane Pool is Int Mod + Level/3 for the Bladebound archetype, so likely to be a minimum of 3 at 5th level, and that is assuming an Int of only 14. Unlikely. My third level Magus (both Kensai & Bladebound) has an Arcane Pool of 6, and that doesn't count the Black Blade's own Arcane Pool, which can be used for some things, as well.
Still, the Magus suffers, as mentioned, from not being a full BAB class, not being able to really fully dedicate the build to Strength, not having a heck of a lot of spell slots, not having access to some of the highest power spells, penalties to hit for adding the spell fresh, crappy AC and lower hit points compared to any of the full BAB classes, and a bunch more.
Taken on a single encounter basis, or if you know you can nova every combat, the damage capability ramps up high. But if you have to look at a full day's encounters, you have fairly limited resources to go into most combats with.
The Magus type also has something of a 'swiss army knife' characteristic that makes it potentially (especially with expanded magus 'feat' choices to increase the types of buffs you can give your weapon) the guy that has the "Hey, I have just the weapon for that!" aspect when an unexpected foe type pops up.
Granted it takes some magus choices to get things like Bane, or the Holy/Unholy/alignment route, but you could then end up with the ability to beat on anything, and not have to carry the golf-bag full of different weapons.
On the other hand, as noted by others, this flexibility comes at cost of duration and when you run out of arcane pool buffing, you're kinda a subpar fighter.
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For bladebound specifically its not like its free. For some reason people see you having to spend less gold and lose their minds over it. The AP and arcana cost is obvious but there is more cost to it. The inability to have a familiar and thus an improved familiar is a lot bigger of a cost then people give credit for.
The most notable is not having a familiar that can use wands. This gives a normal magus even better action economy. Even if you go with one that can not wield a wand there are some seriously good things on that list. A flying cat with great saves and that can lay on hands? Yes please.
On to the magus itself. Barring bs like spellstoring weapon, holding a charge from the round before, casting shocking grasp and then casting a quickened shocking grasp to dump 4-5 spells into one target. A good well made Barb will most of the time out damage you. Many a archer build certainly will if they have ways to add damage on their huge number of shots per round (Smite evil, Favored enemy + instant enemy when needed, Inquisitors bane) Magus also lakes the world bending of a full caster.
So they are not the best at anything but a good at many things in versatile... just where I like my battle mages to be.
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For bladebound specifically its not like its free. For some reason people see you having to spend less gold and lose their minds over it. The AP and arcana cost is obvious but there is more cost to it. The inability to have a familiar and thus an improved familiar is a lot bigger of a cost then people give credit for.
You can add the cost of not being able to take Extra arcana till he get level 6 (to get it you need access to the Magus Arcana feature, but for a bladebound magus that access is delayed to level 6).
As he get 1 feat at level 3 and 2 feats at level 5 you notice that.Close range and ray of frost is one thing at level 3, something completely different at level 6.
Some of Paizo's AP have buy issues - when the biggest city in the country have a buylimit of 13.600 You can't just go and buy the sword you want. That makes bladebound better, but other AP you can pretty much go buy the sword you want... That makes bladebound worth less,
Often a +1 holy vicious keen ýou can make +5 or flaming, frost, shocking burst when need be is better than just a +4 sword...
The thing about finite resources can be fixed very easily with pearls of power and since he doesn't have to buy a weapon those funds could be used for pearls. I think the man contention is the burst damage that can drop the big enemies. At lvl 11 he could do an intensified shocking grasp into a spell storing weapon the use a quicken rod for another and attack. If he crits which he has a 25percent chance thAts 40d6+strx2+2d8 damage or an average of 158dmg average which is usually enough to kill anything at that level. Now there are a lot of builds that can do this damage also barbarion, master summoner it just comes together earlier
The same can be said for full casters. Since they don't need a pricey weapon or really anything other then a mental stat item (and even this is not a must. But is nice to have.) So they could very well dump all their coin into pearls of power.
Now the ability to dump a bunch of spells into the same target at once can be a problem as I said up a couple post. This I agree on. Yet even so its not the biggest balance problem in PF.
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The thing about finite resources can be fixed very easily with pearls of power and since he doesn't have to buy a weapon those funds could be used for pearls. I think the man contention is the burst damage that can drop the big enemies. At lvl 11 he could do an intensified shocking grasp into a spell storing weapon the use a quicken rod for another and attack. If he crits which he has a 25percent chance thAts 40d6+strx2+2d8 damage or an average of 158dmg average which is usually enough to kill anything at that level. Now there are a lot of builds that can do this damage also barbarion, master summoner it just comes together earlier
I don't remember any arcana allowing to give the Spell storing ability to a Black blade. So it is not a problem that will arise with a bladebound magus unless he buy a spell storing weapon and drop his black blade.
At that point he has spent his money for a extra weapon and is in the same wagon of a normal magus, with a smaller arcane pool and one less arcana.And the spell in the spell storing weapon isn't cast with spellstrike, so it is not multiplied by the critical.
So, supposing that your GM allow quick draw with metamagic rods:
- quickdraw your lesser metamagic rod of quicken
- use it to quicken a intensified, stilled, shocking grasp and cast it into the weapon [3rd level spell]
- drop your 35.000 gp rod to get the free hand to use spell combat
- use spell combat to cast another intensified shocking grasp [2nd level spell]
- attack using spell combat.
- if you hit and deliver a critical you do:
* (1d6 + strength bonus)x2 from your scimitar [1d8 only if you are enlarged]
* 10d6 from the stored shocking grasp
* 20d6 from the spellstrike shocking grasp
Total 32d6+2*str bonus = 112+str bonus x2, about 130 hp of damage.
You can't repeat as your rod is on the floor somewhere and all the above has been done within 5' from your target.
Later you need 1 level 2 and 1 level 3 pearl of power to recharge your attack and 2 standard actions, plus a movement action to pick up your rod that hopefully is still there.
Not so impressive.
Spell Storing & Spellstrike don't work together. It would just be easier to use Spellstrike minus the Spell Storing.
1) use quickend rod to cast shocking grasp
2) use spellstrike to deliever the shocking grasp with the black blade
3) free action drop rod
4) Full round action spell combat including an extra shocking grasp
problem - rod of quickend cost to much, and the magus really need his loot to keep AC up - and other basic items. So it's a highlevel trick 3/day. Nothing unbalanced there...
Spellstrike is an ability that expands the magus's options for delivering touch attacks. Nothing more, nothing less. That the spell is cast from a spell storing weapon is irrelevant.
Oh so you mean when a spell-storing weapon hits an enemy and the wielder wishes to deliver that shocking grasp spell they need to roll another to hit? No? Spellstrike isn't helping this as there is no free touch attack to deliver via a weapon instead.
-James
Exactly. I couldn't find a good wording that didn't come off as completely boorish.
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I am curious to know how you are storing the spell in the scimitar while it is in the glove of storing.
You need to have the weapon at hand when casting shocking grasp to store it in the spell storing weapon. It is hard to target it while it is in the glove of spell storing.
Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.
You can't use spell strike with spell storing, with a wand and so on.
Even wand wielder don't allow you to use spellstrike:
Wand Wielder (Su): The magus can activate a wand or staff in place of casting a spell when using spell combat.
It allow you to make a regular touch attack, or get a spell out and do your full attack routine, but you don't get the extra attack and you don't deliver the spell through your weapon.
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Even wand wielder don't allow you to use spellstrike:
PRD wrote:
Wand Wielder (Su): The magus can activate a wand or staff in place of casting a spell when using spell combat.
It allow you to make a regular touch attack, or get a spell out and do your full attack routine, but you don't get the extra attack and you don't deliver the spell through your weapon.
The touch spells grant a free attack, the source does not matter.
Touch Spells in Combat
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.
Spellstrike allows spells with a range of touch to be delivered via weapon.
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.
Wand Weilder grants a specific benefit. Wands can be used in place of casting during spell combat. Once the spell is cast, all of the normal rules are followed. In case of a touch spell, you receive a free attack and are considered to be holding a charge until you touch something or cast.
this is correct.
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Spellstrike allows spells with a range of touch to be delivered via weapon.
Spellstrike allows magus spells that you cast with a range of touch to be delivered via weapon.
FAQ - Using magic items that emulate spellcasting is not the same as actually casting a spell.
In the case of a Spell Storing weapon, the weapon is casting the spell, not the wielder.
No, the wand wielder arcana specifically grants this ability and calls out it can be done with spell combat; spell combat specifically calls out it can be used with spellstrike.
You pay for it with a 'feat', in the same way gunslingers get to do things others cannot normally do, by paying for it with deeds.
This is not a case of DM interpretation, it's RAW when using wand wielder.
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No, the wand wielder arcana specifically grants this ability and calls out it can be done with spell combat; spell combat specifically calls out it can be used with spellstrike.
You're incorrect. Spell Combat doesn't mention Spellstrike at all.
Spellstrike does say you can make the attack in concert with spell combat, but that doesn't mean all the other prerequisites for Spellstrike no longer apply.
In order to use Spellstrike, you must cast a spell with a range of touch from the magus spell list.
You can cast burning hands with Spell Combat, but that doesn't mean you can use Spellstrike to deliver it.
You can use wand wielder to activate a wand during spell combat, but that doesn't mean you can use Spellstrike to deliver it.
IIRC: You can use Spell Combat to cast Shocking Grasp with the free Melee Touch Attack using your off-hand attack while using Spellstrike to deliver a Second Shocking Grasp using a normal Melee Weapon attack.
Wand Wielder just allows you to make the first off-hand spell with a Wand.
IIRC: You can use Spell Combat to cast Shocking Grasp with the free Melee Touch Attack using your off-hand attack while using Spellstrike to deliver a Second Shocking Grasp using a normal Melee Weapon attack.
You need some way of casting that second shocking grasp.
For example, you can use Spell Combat (a full-round action), cast shocking grasp, then choose to either make the free attack granted by casting the spell with a regular touch, or with your weapon against normal AC. Once that's done, you still have your normal attacks left with the weapon. If you then, for instance, cast a quickened shocking grasp as a swift action, you can again choose to make the attack it grants with a touch or with your weapon via Spellstrike.
Spellstrike can be used with spell combat, wand wielder can be used with spell combat, there is nothing excluding the use of both of them. Wand wielder states in place of casting the spell.
A magus is using spell combat, and modifies it with wand wielder and spellstrike,
Now if the wanted to use spell strike and wand wielder without spellcombat, that might be dubious, as it becomes an action economy issue without the special rules of spellcombat.
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Spellstrike can be used with spell combat, wand wielder can be used with spell combat, there is nothing excluding the use of both of them.
The Spellstrike rules exclude it.
Spellstrike (Su): "At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack."
As you can see, the rules state that you must have cast a spell in order to use Spellstrike. That spell also has to have a range of "touch" and it must be from the magus spell list.
FAQ: " No. Unless they specifically state otherwise, feats and abilities that modify spells you cast only affect actual spellcasting, not using magic items that emulate spellcasting or work like spellcasting."
As you can see, the FAQ clarifies that activating a wand is not actually spellcasting.
Since activating a wand is not casting a spell, you cannot use Spellstrike with a wand.
Wand wielder states in place of casting the spell.
Wand Wielder (Su): "The magus can activate a wand or staff in place of casting a spell when using spell combat."
As you can see, the arcana specifies that it allows you to replace the casting a spell component of Spell Combat with activating a wand. This does not mean that activating a wand is now casting a spell. This therefore means that you still cannot use Spellstrike with a wand, even if you're using the wand with Spell Combat.
You can only use Spellstrike if you meet the requirements of being able to use Spellstrike. If you don't meet those requrements, then you can't use the ability.
Maybe this will make more sense to you: A monk can make an unarmed strike as part of a flurry of blows, but that doesn't mean that if he uses a quarterstaff during a flurry, that it gets any of the benefits of unarmed strikes. They're two separate class abilities, even though they can be used together.
Now if the wanted to use spell strike and wand wielder without spellcombat, that might be dubious, as it becomes an action economy issue without the special rules of spellcombat.
Activating a wand of shocking grasp and casting shocking grasp both use a standard action.
It's not an issue of action economy either way. It's an issue of not meeting the requirements of Spellstrike.
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A Melee Touch Attack is a separate thing than an Unarmed Strike or Natural Weapon.
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I am curious to know how you are storing the spell in the scimitar while it is in the glove of storing.
You need to have the weapon at hand when casting shocking grasp to store it in the spell storing weapon. It is hard to target it while it is in the glove of spell storing.You are misunderstanding what spellstrike does. It allows one to use a melee weapon instead of say an unarmed strike or natural weapon to deliver a touch attack. It is not 'locked' into any one weapon, but rather the charge is held. Period. The magus could elect to make a melee touch attack with the held charge one round, then a weapon attack the next both in the attempt to discharge the held spell.
There is even a FAQ on this that says this out directly. I think it might be quoted in this very thread as well.
-James
No James, you are misunderstanding my comment.
It was about was charging his spell storing weapon while it was in the glove of storing.
For example, you can use Spell Combat (a full-round action), cast shocking grasp, then choose to either make the free attack granted by casting the spell with a regular touch, or with your weapon against normal AC. Once that's done, you still have your normal attacks left with the weapon. If you then, for instance, cast a quickened shocking grasp as a swift action, you can again choose to make the attack it grants with a touch or with your weapon via Spellstrike.
No.
Shocking grasp + spellstrike = you get to deliver your free attack from the touch ranged spell through the weapon.Quickened Shocking grasp + spellstrike = you get to deliver your free attack from the touch ranged spell through the weapon.
Shocking grasp + spellstrike then Quickened Shocking grasp + spellstrike = you get to deliver 2 attacks through your weapon.
The magus need to cast both spells from his spell allotment and he should make the first attack before casting the second spell or the charge of the first spell will be lost, but he, like any caster casting 2 spells with a range of touch in the same round, get 2 touch attack and spellstrike allow him to convert both to weapon attacks.
Spellstrike allows magus spells that you cast with a range of touch to be delivered via weapon.Incorrect. It is spells on the magus list but need not be magus spells. A wizard/magus could cast one of his wizard spells that appeared on the magus spell list and could use spell strike with it.
I am curious to know how you are storing the spell in the scimitar while it is in the glove of storing.
You need to have the weapon at hand when casting shocking grasp to store it in the spell storing weapon. It is hard to target it while it is in the glove of spell storing.You are misunderstanding what spellstrike does. It allows one to use a melee weapon instead of say an unarmed strike or natural weapon to deliver a touch attack. It is not 'locked' into any one weapon, but rather the charge is held. Period. The magus could elect to make a melee touch attack with the held charge one round, then a weapon attack the next both in the attempt to discharge the held spell.
There is even a FAQ on this that says this out directly. I think it might be quoted in this very thread as well.
-James
You would need broad study for that to be so... there is another arcana that lets you 'rob' wizard spells without dippping, can't recall it's name. But you need the right arcana, otherwise your other spell lists don't count.