Can a horse with Endurance "sleep" with all its riding gear on?


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

i.e. saddle and bit and bridle, so if I'm attacked at night I can jump on it and not suffer a -5 penalty for riding bare-back.

Richard


As a DM, I wouldn't allow that. Horses hate that, and it's generally considered cruel to do that to a horse. Not allowing the horse's skin to breath can lead to rashes, sores, and other conditions that would make it even worse to ride the horse as compared to bareback.

Also, all horses have endurance, according to the bestiary.

Sovereign Court

I'd say no. Strictly according to RAW, yeah you probably can, but this is something that runs counter to common sense. Horses do a lot of hard work and need care and rest too.


Actually, I might let you do that in my game, but your horse wouldn't last long in your care, and you'd soon find yourself with a horse not obeying orders. Might even buck you off during that getaway chase in the middle of the night.

Also it might change your alignment one step towards evil. Cruelty to animals, and all that.

Sovereign Court

None of those things are armour, which is what Endurance applies to.

PRD Endurance wrote:
You may sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.

So the feat Endurance does not let them sleep with a bridle and saddle on. Armour for a horse would be barding, which is obviously not those things. If your GM wants to allow it that is their decision and you should ask them.

Dark Archive

How is it, though, that a horse with Endurance (I didn't think they all had it but anyway) can sleep in plate barding but not with a saddle on.

Surely plate barding is considerably more awkward and chafing than a saddle, bit and bridle?

Anyway, is there a saddle/bit/bridle which could be made, possibly by magical means, which would allow the horse to wear it at night?

Richard

Grand Lodge

richard develyn wrote:

How is it, though, that a horse with Endurance (I didn't think they all had it but anyway) can sleep in plate barding but not with a saddle on.

You're supposed to take the barding off too. The inherent problems with armoring horses ensured that many of them weren't. on any long campaigns.


By RAW it doesn't work. I think "sleeping in gear" might be fitting for an animal trick though.


I guess a specially made bridle is less of a problem for a horse to sleep with.

By "specially made" I mean one that's similar to those put on horses to ty them to posts while getting cleaned up or saddled.

However saddles actually compress the horse's rib cage. Imagine sleeping in a corset... Or (if you are not a woman) ask your wife/GF/... if she could sleep well with a push-up bra.

Even with training you won't sleep as well... you might not get penalties (endurance), but after a while you will be in a constant bad mood.
Thus it's highly likely that a horse could get unruly, if you keep doing that.

Grand Lodge

Kyoni wrote:

I guess a specially made bridle is less of a problem for a horse to sleep with.

By "specially made" I mean one that's similar to those put on horses to ty them to posts while getting cleaned up or saddled.

However saddles actually compress the horse's rib cage. Imagine sleeping in a corset... Or (if you are not a woman) ask your wife/GF/... if she could sleep well with a push-up bra.

Even with training you won't sleep as well... you might not get penalties (endurance), but after a while you will be in a constant bad mood.
Thus it's highly likely that a horse could get unruly, if you keep doing that.

or just die from the abuse. Horses frequently are bad at sensing that they're being overworked and tend to keel over unexpectedly.


LazarX wrote:
richard develyn wrote:

How is it, though, that a horse with Endurance (I didn't think they all had it but anyway) can sleep in plate barding but not with a saddle on.

You're supposed to take the barding off too. The inherent problems with armoring horses ensured that many of them weren't. on any long campaigns.

Also it should be noted that the horse your typical knight rode around on wasn't usually the one he fought astride, contrary to hollywood legends. They would ride a smaller, more comfortable palfrey when traveling, and switch to the destrier 'war horse' when needed.

Grand Lodge

There is a trait in the new Varisian book that gives you a free light horse, that you can ride bareback without penalty. You can also replace it if killed.


Yes, please do that. I love stealing horses that are fully equipped!

Scarab Sages

Get yourself a "Horselord's Belt" from this book, and your problem is sorted. :P

While wearing it, you count as employing a military saddle of the appropriate type to your mount, even if you're riding bareback. You also get a +2 to ride checks.


richard develyn wrote:

How is it, though, that a horse with Endurance (I didn't think they all had it but anyway) can sleep in plate barding but not with a saddle on.

Surely plate barding is considerably more awkward and chafing than a saddle, bit and bridle?

Anyway, is there a saddle/bit/bridle which could be made, possibly by magical means, which would allow the horse to wear it at night?

Richard

For one, the bestiary states that horses has endurance, so I don't really see a situation in which they wouldn't. Maybe an animal companion, but then they'd probably get it sooner or later.

Two: plate barding is by no means "light or medium armor" for which endurance allows one to sleep in.

Three: I'm sure that if you talk with your DM, you could come up with magical equipment that you could leave on a horse. Something with a comfort enchantment plus a cleaning and/or healing enchantment to prevent sores and rashes from occurring. But then you risk having a fully geared horse available to steal while you're sleeping. Horse theft is a common crime.


You gotta watch out for us invisible fogs...we come steal yo horses in da night!


bookrat wrote:

plate barding is by no means "light or medium armor" for which endurance allows one to sleep in.

Yeah, he should have chosen a medium armour. Chainmail barding would be a better example.

If I was the GM, I would handwave the issue. It's not really that big a deal, especially considering that Endurance is now the worst feat in the (core rules) game since Paizo improved Toughness and Dodge.

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