Boring's Bad Idea

[boring7]

So I was in a thread about low-magic and high-magic settings and the arguments between the greedy munchkins and the stingy, stuffy "purists" and I had an interesting idea for arcane talents.

The base idea is a player picks an astrological sign (a la Elder Scrolls, Eberron Dragonmarked, etc.) that corresponds to a school of magic (except universal, more on that later). They then get 1 0th level spell from that school (their choice) as an at-will spell-like ability and 1 1st level spell (same school, rolled randomly) as a 1/day spell-like ability, their hit dice as caster level.

Already there are questions, like whether the spell list should be modified (Hold Portal is a terrible spell) and whether it should be Sor/wiz only or include cleric, bard, or druid spells. And I know plenty of folk don't care for rolling randomly for powers, but the powers are "free" and not unlike rolling for stats. But the idea is everyone has a magic "talent" they are born with, so even mud-farmers in podunkville have some magic in them, even if it's just magic lights and a bartender who keeps the drinks cold.

Moving on, characters can "upgrade" their abilities by taking the "Enhanced Sign" feat that grants another spell from their school (their choice, 1/3 their level, up to 4th level spells, may take feat multiple times) as a 2/day spell-like ability, their hit dice as caster level.

This means a level 9 or better barbarian could throw fireballs and lightning bolts, but so can anyone else. And they aren't getting better than Greater Invisibility (maybe not even have that on the approved list) because it caps at 4th level spells.

Fluff-wise the magic is part inborn sorcery and part learned wizardry, but the save DC is Constitution-based because the force you can spare on magic is determined by your general health.

But then there is the Universal school. What can they do? Well they are the only ones who get Prestidigitation (aka "best cantrip evar"), but they don't get a 1st level spell because there are none. The "signless" have a number of superstitions associated with them, and are often seen as either blessed or cursed for not being associated with one type of magic or other.

But they do have a big advantage, they have the option of taking Spell Resistance.

When they take "Enhanced sign" instead of receiving a spell-like ability they receive spell resistance 5 + their level. A 25% chance to resist spells tossed at them by equal-level casters, though they have to consciously "turn it off" for a round to get beneficial spells cast on them by others. Not surprisingly they also make good wizards, because they often feel the need to work hard to "make up" for a perceived lack.

So, what do you think? "Dumbest idea ever, never post here again"? "Great idea, needs these changes but Imma totally have peasants throwing fireballs at the party next campaign"?

I had to get that idea out of my head and into someone else's.

[Oceanshieldwolf]

I love it. Especially as applied to all characters, regardless of class. Others mileage will vary. :)

I especially like the concept of the "signless" and the superstitions applied to them...

[Tacticslion]

Dot for later.

[boring7]

One thing I had thought of but forgot to add, Rogues (who get no love) would have an optional rogue talent letting them "steal from other signs" and get, say, Stone Shape when their sign was evocation.

[Tacticslion]

That's pretty interesting. I tend to mull over ideas before being able to add or subtract to them, but one thing I'm thinking of noting: getting 5+lvl spell resistance every time they take the feat is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge.

First level: 5+1 = SR 6

Third level: 5+3 (+6) = SR 20

Fifth level: 5+5 (+20) = SR 30 <- it is now completely impossible to hit them with magic by a mage of their level without a perfect twenty

Seventh level: 5+7 (+30) = SR 42 <- it is now completely impossible to hit them without a perfect twenty by a mage of five levels higher than they are

Ninth level: 5+9 (+42) = SR 56 <- it is now completely impossible to hit them with magic by a mage of less-than-epic magic

While that does take up their feats, if they're a fighter, it's entirely worth it. They don't need will saves anymore.

If I may suggest instead, that the first time they take the feat, they get SR equal to 5+lvl. That spell resistance increases with their level. Each subsequent time they take the feat, they gain a static +5 bonus to their SR. Still big? You betcha. But not nearly as much as the other was.

First level: 5+1 = SR 6

Third level: 5+5+3 = SR 13

Fifth level: 5+5+5+5 = SR 20

Seventh level: 5+5+5+5+5+7 = SR 27 <- it is now completely impossible to hit them with magic by a mage of their level without a perfect twenty

Ninth level: 5+5+5+5+5+9 = SR 34 <- it is now completely impossible to hit them with magic by a mage of less-than-six levels higher than they, save by perfect 20.

Eleventh level: 5+5+5+5+5+5+11 = SR 41 <- it is now completely impossible to hit them with magic by a non-epic mage without a perfect 20.

Now, you might not have intended them to stack, but considering you can stack Enhanced Sign feat for spell-likes, it seems like you could for spell resistance. You also might have already meant that their SR increases every level. But I wanted to point out, that, currently at least, it looks like you meant "each time they take the feat (which can be taken multiple times) they get a static bonus, but that bonus increases each time they take the feat".

One other nifty idea you may be interested in instead is to create another, separate feat tree. The initial feat grants 5 + 1/2 HD spell resistance, while each subsequent feat adds 5 to that (maximum four times). If they've taken the feat four times, the fifth time they want to take a feat (first available at ninth level) they're effectively under the benefit of a globe of invulnerability - i.e. 4th level spells and below don't work on them anymore anyway.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Nifty idea. Oh, and yes, you'd need a limited pool to choose from - at least I'd recommend it - otherwise, you'll end up with really useless spells that some have.

[boring7]

I was assuming (but not saying, because I am teh sloppiness) they could only take it once.

My other idea was having to take it multiple times, but limiting by level (i.e. you can get SR 5 at level 1, SR 10 at level 5, etc.) but that seemed a bit expensive, and has a pretty broad sliding scale of usefulness depending on whether they are, say, level 9 vs level 10.

The goal with any Spell Resistance is neither uselessness at later levels (like the static 13 of a certain armor enhancement) nor effective immunity (over 40ish). And I like 25% plus or minus an enemy's caster level and investment in things like spell penetration. The general rule for those who get it as, say, a racial ability (okay the Drow and I don't know who else) seems to be about 50%.

[Gobo Horde]

I like the idea quite a bit, especially the skyrim reference ;P I do have to ask about spell level. Some spell levels can vary drastically between different classes. For example, Major creation is a fourth level spell for a summoner, but a 6th level spell for a cleric.
I believe that the spell resistance should be capped to only once, despite the others being able to be scaled as the intent of this house rule was to add flavour that any class can take and invest feats into to create another option, not become immune to an entire facet of the game. 25% spell resistance is in league with the other abilities, 100% spell resistance is not. Even if it costs multiple feats. Also note, this is house rules, so take what you want from it and build your own.

[Silent Saturn]

I always liked the "birthsign" aspect of the Elder Scrolls series-- I feel like characters in most RPGs are too narrowly defined by their race and class, and there should be more emphasis on the character as an individual. This would be a step towards that, as well as step away from metagaming-- just because the BBEG is wearing full plate and swinging a greataxe doesn't mean he can't throw a fireball.

Spell resistance is going to be tough to balance, but overall I think it's a good idea. I would recommending using the sor/wiz and the bard spell list, to keep it to arcane spells only. The whole "birthsign" mechanic seems like it makes more sense for arcane magic. If you're born with knowledge of a divine spell, that basically makes you an oracle or cleric.

[Tim4488]

What about barbarians blessed by totem spirits, fighters or rogues with a special 'knack' favored by a god of luck, or alchemists whose mad science is guided as much by divine insight as intellect? I think you could make divine spells fit, if you wanted to.

[Tacticslion]

+1 to Tim4488

[Hubris]

Dotting for later.

[boring7]

All righty, got this thing re-written a bit.

Birth Signs:

Every character born into (homebrew world) is born under one of the 8 great constellations in the heavens. Nearly every child born of these signs draws arcane power from the stars and from their own beating hearts. Those few "signless" who are not touched by magic of the stars are a mystery. Myths and legends vary from culture to culture, some believe they are cursed, others believe they are blessed, and some believe they are a a deeper mystery entirely.

The great parade of celestial signs are thus: Anyos The Turtle/Tortoise - abjuration, Stohkon the Great Tree - conjuration, Serena the seer divination, Umed the serpent - enchantment, Saranormi the Dragon - evocation, Vargun the Demon/Fool - illusion, Duros the Vulture - necromancy, and Tallip the Tree-Frog - transmutation.

Zodiac Powers:

Every member of the intelligent (i.e. playable) races gains Zodiac Powers based on their birthsign, for the most part these powers are spell-like abilities. At creation, a character picks one spell related to her sign from the list below. Lesser powers can be used as often as a character is willing, although the process is as physically taxing as working or exercising and can eventually exhaust anyone. Greater powers are similar, but more powerful and may only be used 2 times per day before the user exhausts their spiritual energy. A good night's sleep almost always replenishes one's abilities, though some have been known to temporarily lose their powers while too ill or infirm. Truly powerful individuals have been known to gain access to even greater powers aking to mightier spells.

Save DCs for all Zodiac Powers are 10 + constitution modifier + (1/2 character hit dice) and caster level is (character hit dice).

Abjuration:
Resistance, Hold Portal, or Virtue

Conjuration:
Acid Splash, Drench, or Stabilize

Divination:
Detect Magic, Detect Poison, or Know Direction

Enchantment:
Daze, Unwitting Ally, or Lullaby

Evocation:
Dancing Lights, Ray of Frost, or Spark

Illusion:
Ghost Sound, Ventriloquism, or Haunted Fey Aspect

Necromancy:
Bleed, Disrupt Undead, or Touch of Fatigue

Transmutation:
Jolt, Mage Hand, or Mending

Universal (signless):

Prestidigitation

-Greater Powers (2/day)

Abjuration:
Alarm, Shield, Protection from (alignment), Endure Elements, Hide from Undead, or Undetectable Alignment

Conjuration:
Grease, Mage Armor, Obscuring Mist, Cure Light Wounds, Dream Feast, or Summon Monster 1

Divination:
Comprehend Languages, Detect Charm, Read Weather, Deathwatch, Diagnose Disease, or Tap Inner Beauty

Enchantment:
Charm Person, Hypnotism, Forbid Action, Compel Hostility, Swallow your Fear, or Memory Lapse

Evocation:
Floating Disk, Ear-piercing scream, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, Burning Hands, or Hydraulic Push

Illusion:
Dazzling Blade, Disguise Self, Magic Aura, Silent Image, Vanish, or Innocence

Necromancy:
Ray of enfeeblement, Chill Touch, Inflict light wounds, Cause Fear, Sanctify Corpse, or Interrogation

Transmutation:
Alter Winds, Crafter's Fortune, Expeditious Excavation, Feather Fall, Jury-Rig, or Ant Haul.

Signless:
YOU GET NOTHING! I SAID GOOD DAY!

Feat: Enhanced Zodiac Power
prerequisite: has zodiac power,

The Enhanced Zodiac Power feat allows a character to choose any Greater Power from their Sign, they may use that power 2 more times per day than previously, and may take this feat multiple times.

Feat: Shield of the Signless
Prerequisite: has zodiac Power, is signless.

The Shield of the Signless grants Spell Resistance 5 + (character hit dice) to the character. All normal rules for Spell Resistance apply.

Feat: Enhanced Zodiac Power 2
Prerequisite: has zodiac power, greater than level 3

As Enhanced Zodiac Power but accessing tier II powers.

Not doing tier 2+ spells for now. too many spells to sort through and I'm getting tired.

Obviously a lot of wiggle-room, I still like the idea of rolling randomly for your "freebie" greater powers (note there are always 6) and of course, a feat cannot be taken multiple times unless it says so. For the spell selection I generally tried to imagine a regular townie NPC with it and having at least some kind of use for it. Obviously some things only work if you have a specific job, like mortician or healer or city guard, but I think it worked for the most part.

[SmiloDan]

One thing to take into consideration is at will ranged touch attack sneak attacks.

One thing you might consider is making astronomical signs based on sub-schools, like conjuration (teleportation) and illusion (shadow), etc.