I'm a level 7 wizard and I'm thinking about taking the Golem Constructor arcane discovery at level 10. For those that are not aware it means that I can make golems (which normally require three feats) for only one feat but I am limited to only making one type of golem.
I'm playing a water-based campaign and the coral golem is the obvious choice, healed by saltwater and doing quite a significant amount of damage compared to some of the other low-level golems.
The cannon golem seems the other obvious choice however it's level 17 and I don't want to be waiting too long before I can get a few golems.
Do any of you have any advice about whether the coral golem is a good choice and any advice about how I could optimise my golem use.
Am I correct in my assumption that your discovery will let you make shield guardian variants of the existing golem type? If so I don't believe the fast healing will stack, though I could be wrong.
The problem I see with Coral is it doesn't float, so it will either NOT be healing (it's big special) or it will be far, far under the battling ships, or you have to strap floaties to it and hope the enemy doesn't sink it.
Wood Golem on the other hand DOES float, but is really weak.
Alternatively if you take the full construct path you can create multiple types, starting with wood and moving up to other types (with Water Walk enchantment I guess?) as levels progress. Also you can make non-golem constructs, which are known to have their uses now and then.
boring7: APG has a spell called Slipstream. Among the swim spells I could find it is the only one that does not have SR and thus can be cast upon a coral golem. IE: the Coral Golem can swim for 10min/level per casting of slipstream. Only a 2nd level wizard spell.
- Gauss
Resistance wrote: I'm playing a water-based campaign Could you be more clear about this? Do you mean mostly aboard ship, mostly near water, or often underwater?
Boring7 pointed out the problem with the coral golem if your campaign is going take place mostly aboard ship. In that case you'd probably want a "land-based" golem, even though you're atop water.
If you're going to be fighting along beaches or underwater, though, the coral golem is a fantastic choice.
Gauss wrote: APG has a spell called Slipstream. Among the swim spells I could find it is the only one that does not have SR and thus can be cast upon a coral golem. IE: the Coral Golem can swim for 10min/level per casting of slipstream. Only a 2nd level wizard spell. But if all the enemies are on board ships, the golem swimming around in the water isn't going to have much to do. I suppose he could try and punch a whole in the enemy frigate... :p
The Swim speed does not negate his land speed. In fact, it increases it. Nifty spell. :)
First thing I would do when shipboard combat approaches: cast slipstream. I would also make sure the golem has a way to get out of the water (strong ropes to climb up) in case he fell in.
Of course, having a construct in the water could be quite interesting during ship to ship combat. Depends on how creative you get.
- Gauss
Boring7, I'd assume that I would be allowed to make shield golems and also add other templates. I'm not sure about whether it will stack but that's up to the DM. I'll ask when I can. Wood is almost certainly too weak to be useful, regardless of whether it floats or not. It would be a better option to cover the coral golems with some sort of material that floats than making the entire golem out of a material that floats but is extremely weak.
Can't go for the full construct path :P, I've already selected my feats and doing that would mean waiting till level 20 for my first golem.
Pendragon, the game is mainly next to water at the moment but later on I plan it to spend most of my time on a ship. Golems are pretty strong, I'm sure that combined with some explosives I could easily take down other ships by just having them swim underneath and plant bombs.
If it would work, I could probably have the golems tethered to a submarine (so that they don't fall to the bottom of the sea) and hack away at the bottom of ships.
Resistance: you wont need tethering if you have Slipstream cast upon the golem.
- Gauss
Yes, however I would need to cast slipstream multiple times for different golems and a simple dispel magic could destroy them. Do you know of a spell that will allow me to move salt water onto another ship to give them the healing affect?
why dont you use a maghic item with slipstream as a base item for the coral growth of the golem?
it grants the golem a perment slipstream effect and they have to destroy the golem to disenchant it.
plus loot has to come from somewhere.
Coral Golems are pretty expensive. Not sure how you are making a golem army out of coral golems. First, you will need to be level 11. Second, itll take you 27days per golem if you accelerate it. At level 11 you should have somewhere around 82,000gp. One coral Golem will cost 30,500gp. You'll only be able to build 1 at that level. By level 10 yes, you will be able to have around 10-12.
Yes, slipstream is dispellable but not that easily dispellable. An equal CR wizard would have to roll a 10.
Tethering or mundane floation devices can help if you are that worried about it. If you have many golems then the others can swim down and pull the one that got dispelled up.
Slipstream is only a second level spell so multiple castings should not be that big a deal. By level 20 you can also have a rediculous number of Pearls of PowerII in order to hit them all with slipstream.
No, I do not know of a spell that allows you to move salt water onto the ship (in enough quantities). The salt water must occupy a space as large as the coral golem when the coral golem touches it. A 10x10x10 space is 1,000cubic feet of water. There is no spell that will move that much water.
- Gauss
Edit: BTW, if you have both Mage Armor AND Slipstream on your golems then it is a 50/50 chance which spell is dispelled (unless the enemy wizard saw you cast the slipstream spell on the golem).
Edit 2: If you give each golem a Immovable Rod (CRB p484, 5000gp) with orders to use it if it ever lost the ability to swim AND it was in the water then it should be somewhere within 60feet or so below the surface. Locate object to find the golem and a rope, you are good.
Edit 3: Call Construct (5000gp, UM p210) will summon your construct to you.
Edit 4: Levitate works.
I am just finding all sorts of things that work on golems. :D You can stack alot of spells together to make them dispel resistant.
Having an immovable rod in case of emergency is a great idea, it may be a little expensive at first but having all of the golems able to simply able to stop themselves. Also, since golems are far stronger than humans and also underwater I could have the golems climb up in the same way people climb ropes and have them ascend to the surface.
I'll definitely need some mundane flotation devices, they can simply be taken off once the golem has boarded a ship if they impede the movement.
Call construct is useful but a bit expensive, definitely more endgame.
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Also, I've chosen coral golems because they're the obvious choice but what other golems could I choose around level 10-11 that are also viable choices. The being in water and healing isn't too amazing to be honest considering shield golems (which I want to avoid due to being tied to an amulet) can do that anyway. Are you sure that coral golems are the right choice? Pretty much all golems work underwater and quite a few of them are stronger than the coral golem. Any suggestions about other golems which I could use which require caster level 11 or lower. Iron seems another obvious choice, although it requires cl16 it's obviously one of the most versatile golems and so does the cannon golem.
Oh, Im quite sure Coral Golems are not the only right choice for what you want. I was simply basing my advice on your premise of Coral Golem. IF you want I can start looking for a better option. The question is: do you want numbers, strength, damage, survivability, or special stuff? Different preferences come up with different choices.
Regarding Shield Guardians, if you are going to have one you should only have one shield golem, probably the best Golem you have. The price to make a shield guardian is prohibitive. First, you pay the price for the golem, then an extra 45,000gp for the first and an extra 55000gp for each additional shield guardian.
Once you indicate your preferences I can make some intelligent recommendations. :)
- Gauss
I'd like a golem that is ideal for ship-to-ship combat, that doesn't mean that it needs to be an alchemical or cannon golem since they're the only golems with ranged weapons because I can just have them pick up cannons for ranged use. Obviously an adamantine golem is a fantastic choice, being almost impossible to kill and such but I'd much rather be able to have golems at an early stage than one adamantine golem at level 20.
I want them to do relatively high damage since the golems job is basically to kill anybody that opposes me and act as thugs. But I'd also prefer if they were rather strong and didn't die. I can't think of any special stuff immediately but any bonuses to naval combat.
I'd say level 14 is the maximum level about which I can begin to start making golems since I want them as early as possible.
Using construction speed I can give all golems a swim speed. Most golems are large so I can add three construction points.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/animated-objec t
I'll probably add a swim speed and a ranged attack.
No need to bump it, I will get to it at some point. I do on occassion have a life. ;)
I will not be able to come up with a response for about a day.
BTW, you are not able to give Golems a swim speed or ranged attack. You can give animated objects a swim speed and ranged attack. The rules URL you posted does not apply to golems.
- Gauss
As a homebrew rule it is okay to have golems that require a CL 5 times higher than you but you suffer a penalty. So for example if the golem was only 1 level higher than me I would have to pay 10% more, 2 levels higher than me I would pay 20% more than the cost. This opens up the possibility of some of the higher-level golems such as the iron golem.
I've found the thing which does allow me to get modifications and following these guidelines I could give all of my golems slipstream for:
minimum level to cast the spell × the spell level × 250 gp
Which is relatively cheap and a great safeguard if the golem ever does fall in.
Found the page on modifying golems, there's nothing about adding swim but I can add slipstream in the way I did above. I can also probably add some crude floatation devices, maybe even wings.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs
Started my search through the golems:
Animated Objects: Great since you can purpose build them. Not as good for dealing damage. Build a Ship as an animated object. :D
Darkwood Cobra: Good for water scouting.
Alchemical Golem (Bestiary2 p135): Awesome for ranged combat (8d6 energy bomb). While it has decent damage for its level it is not great in melee combat due to DR10/Bludgeoning (or adamantine, but many things use Bludgeoning). Excellent strength for a caster level 10 golem.
Clockwork Leviathan (Bestiary3 p55): Fast Swimmer, has a breath weapon, swallows smaller creatures.
Cannon Golem (Bestiary3 p135): A higher powered ranged combatant (when compared to the Alchemical Golem). Higher level requirements, higher prices.
Note: for one Cannon Golem you can buy almost 6 (5.8) Alchemical Golems. 5.8*8d6 (162.4avg) vs 12d6+14 (56avg) assuming all attacks hit.
If you were going the full craft construct route (ie: all 3 feats) I would suggest a mixed approach. Honestly, I think grabbing 1 feat for 1 construct is going to hinder your options. IF you are going to be a construct builder, go the full route. Then again, I dont know what type of character you have.
Which one for 'shipboard and water' combat?
Alchemical Golem is inexpensive for what it does, has a high strength, and a ranged (touch) attack that does decent damage (albeit, randomized energy damage).
Cannon Golem is expensive, does more damage per ranged hit, and has better survivability. BUT if you lose that golem you lose alot more. If you lose an Alchemical Golem you can replace it without too much cost.
Clockwork Leviathan is just cool. But it is big (Huge) and thus wont help ON a ship. If you want a creature to swim around all the time this is the construct for you.
I will look through the non-bestiary references later.
- Gauss
The clockwork leviathan is absolutely awesome, I've looked at it before and it's perfect for the campaign. It is well in its capacity to bite a hole in an opposing ship and just grind its way through any enemies I face. It can also travel onland. I was seriously considering going the whole craft construct route because of this. I've decided against it, feats are too valuable and I'd much rather have one type of golem than waste three feats on.
I haven't considering the alchemical golem but it really does look good but it's too weak and won't be very useful at the end of the campaign. If I get a wizard cohort I will definitely have some.
Golems can easily be modified so adding a cannon to a golem isn't really a problem, the cannon golem does high damage but generally I think it's a bit of a niche.
I think I've decided upon the iron golem. I can easily make modifications such as adding a cannon to it and of all the golems It's the largest and seems to be the best value. Brass plating won't cost much anyway.
Has to be a "Golem" according to the SRD, like the Shield Guardian template.
Iron Golem is solid, but expensive as all heck and really, REALLY heavy (like, going to affect your ship's cargo capacity) unless you stack on some levitation or something. Can a Golem wear boots? Also one of the ways to heal it is something you usually want to keep far away from your flammable wooden ship.
Running down the SRD list:
Adamantine Golem: Too expensive
Alchemical Golem: Good for dealing damage, crap at taking it. (DR /Bludgeoning? No.)
Bone Golem: Thematically cool, but weaker and more expensive than the Alchemical Golem.
Brass Golem: Bigger, better version of an Iron Golem, also pricier, takes another level to get to, and even heavier.
Cannon Golem: Kind of crap in the ocean, actually. Water spells ruin the powder (no word on immersion in regular water) and anything it can do sooner, better, and/or cheaper. It has it's cannon, but so do, you know, regular cannons.
Carrion Golem: Cheap disease-spreader, more of a long-term play on land targets than a short naval battle.
Caryatid Golem: A very specific kind of stone golem, weaker, but breaks a lot of enemy weapons.
Okay I'm running out of steam here, but quickly the Flesh Golem's relatively lower density (floats less badly) and electricity synergy might work with the fact that water and electricity are a volatile mix. It's also weak, but cheap. That's another consideration in fact, if you want more than one big bruiser you'll probably have to accept weaker golems. Quantity vs. Quality, as it were.
If allowed, the Iron Archer and Iron Maiden golems are both Iron Golems (modified) and the archer can actually fly faster than most PCs. Of course the Iron Maiden is 3rd party so nevermind that one.
The Rope Golem is cheap-but-weak, is actually healed by the mending spell(!), and is thematic (rope on a ship, makes sense).
And finally if you are allowed to bend the rules and pick "animated object" go for it, a living ship is awesome and while they're never as tough, pound-for-pound, as True Golems a (several actually, they're cheaper!) animated object with a hardness score can be a better blocker than a golem with a breakable DR.
But anyway, if you're going Iron Golem and if you're allowed to strap equipment on it I recommend a Cloak of Immolation (cursed item, magical fire damage) and Boots of Levitation. Pearl of the Sirines and Helm of Underwater action also grant a swim speed, but their use is at least as dubious.
Also saltwater causes rust, so stock up on the Make Whole spells and Machine oil, though maybe constantly being on fire negates that.
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