Synthesist and Extra Evolution

[DM Jelani]

Was it ever ruled on whether a synthesist summoner could take the extra evolution feat?

[blackbloodtroll]

No, they cannot.

[DM Jelani]

Okay, thought so. Just making sure, thanks.

[Rocky Williams 530]

Huh? Since when?

[Are]

Presumably since Ultimate Magic was released. The only prerequisite for the Extra Evolution feat is "Eidolon class feature", but the synthesist archetype replaces that class feature with the "Fused Eidolon" class feature. So the synthesist doesn't technically fulfil the requirement.

That said, I wouldn't have any problem with a synthesist taking that feat in my games.

Edit: Apparently SKR has said that synthesists can take the Extra Evolution feat, on basis of the line "in all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner's normal eidolon ability".

[blackbloodtroll]

You have never dealt with a Synthesist have you?

[Are]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

You have never dealt with a Synthesist have you?

There's one in the game I'm currently GM'ing.

[blackbloodtroll]

Are wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

You have never dealt with a Synthesist have you?

There's one in the game I'm currently GM'ing.

I hope, for your sake, the player is not a power gamer.

[Rocky Williams 530]

There's been no, to my knowledge, official word that it doesn't work, and SKR has said it works. Now, I'm not up on who "counts" as official word, but that seems good enough for me even if he's not THE guy for final wording, at least till there's a FAQ entry saying otherwise.

[blackbloodtroll]

SKR is a rules guy.

[Phasics]

If you player is desperate for extra evolution tell him to roll up a half-elf and take the +1/4 evo point favoured class bonus

[Ryu Kaijitsu]

"Edit: Apparently SKR has said that synthesists can take the Extra Evolution feat, on basis of the line "in all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner's normal eidolon ability"."

I would say rightly so, classes that modify/"replace" animal companion feature don't have problems taking animal companion related feats either

[Artanthos]

There is also this Link giving a very lengthy explanation as to why similar abilities will use the same rules and provide access to the same feats even with naming variations.

[Mr Crowley]

I don't understand why DMs should fear a Synthesist even if the player is a power gamer. Banishment is a hell of a spell. Also, if you want to be really cruel you could use the true naming binding concept. What would happen if a villian discovered an Eidolon's true name? Would that make the summoner his puppet?

[Selgard]

If the DM has to resort to one trick to balance your entire class- whether its Banishment or disarm or sundering a spellbook or.. well, any one thing- then its a *problem*.

I mean what are you suggesting otherwise? That 25% of the fights involve banishing the Eidolon? If thats the balance- then its going to come up a hell of a lot.

I mean I get that banishment is part of an available toolkit but when its *the* toolkit then you really don't have a tool or a kit, you just have a hammer you keep beating the poor guy up with.

[David knott 242]

More common would be simply beating up the synthesist until he loses his suit or becomes ineffective in combat because he is doing nothing but healing it.

[blackbloodtroll]

The problem only comes up when the DM has no experience with a Synthesist.
The same happens with Gunslingers.

They are not overtly powerful, but inexperience can create problems.

[DM Jelani]

Well, I was asking about it for an epic level game. I'm playing an advanced half-celestial norn monk 1 instead, so I don't think the synthesist would have been overpowered :P

I knew that technically RAW you couldn't take it, but I also thought there was an unofficial ruling from someone saying you can. That's all the info I was after, thanks guys.