Population of Falcon's Hollow, 1.400 or 315?

[Sven Gerkens]

Hi, I have a question.

According to the "Guide of Darkmoon Vale" and "Crown of the Kobold King", population of Falcon's Hollow ist 1.400.

This seem very high to me. Olfden seem to be almost ten times as big as Falcon's Hollow, but has "only" 3.300 people.

According to the later adventure "Hungry are the Dead" population is only 315. This seems more realistic.

What do you think?

[Kthulhu]

Carnival of Tears had quite a impact on the population.

:P

[Ratso33]

I was just considering this
According to the map there are approx. 80 buildings
which equates to around 17 people per home which does seem high

Using your estimate of 315 people that works out as just under 4 people per house which does sound more likely

[W E Ray]

I've noticed that the maps Paizo has produced over the years have been grossly bad, ludicrous even, when considering population. I think it was the Katapesh poster map that I most recently took a look at but I've done it with a few others over the years. (I remember the farce of the map of Alhaster from AoW!)

For me, I'd go with population 315 cuz that's kinda how I see it -- and how I see it in comparison with the rest of the campaign world.

[Stereofm]

Usual solution : medieval censuses were rather bad, as they only registered people paying taxes in many cases, and most everybody was trying to escape them to avoid paying the taxes.

Go with 314 and say it can be :
- number of adults
- number of households
- number of taxpayers

rather than total number of habitants.

[Tacticslion]

One other idea, too, (though I don't know how valid this is in a place like Falcon's Hallow) is that perhaps 314 is the number of those who actually live within the town, but 1,400 would be the sum total of those who live in and around the town (even at some distance), but even though they don't live "there", they more-or-less consider themselves part of it (or are more-or-less considered part of it by the town itself, as Stereofm mentioned, for tax or protection purposes). They don't even have to be particularly close by, so long as they're closer to Falcon's Hallow than any other town.

This kind of thing happens even today. Living on or beyond the outskirts - beyond the suburbs, even - of anything that could reasonably be defined as a built up, proper city-limits, some people are still "living in" (and thus count as the "population of") a town, despite having nothing but effective wilderness around them for miles (though usually it's no more than half a mile, which is actually a pretty decent distance on foot or horseback).

Again, I don't know if that works for Falcon's Hallow - I don't know the set up, region, or anything like that - but that's one idea I had for why a population might say two very different things.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Stereofm wrote:

Usual solution : medieval censuses were rather bad, as they only registered people paying taxes in many cases, and most everybody was trying to escape them to avoid paying the taxes.

Go with 314 and say it can be :
- number of adults
- number of households
- number of taxpayers

rather than total number of habitants.

I would also point to The wiki's canon policy about conflicting resources

[thejeff]

Tacticslion wrote:

One other idea, too, (though I don't know how valid this is in a place like Falcon's Hallow) is that perhaps 314 is the number of those who actually live within the town, but 1,400 would be the sum total of those who live in and around the town (even at some distance), but even though they don't live "there", they more-or-less consider themselves part of it (or are more-or-less considered part of it by the town itself, as Stereofm mentioned, for tax or protection purposes). They don't even have to be particularly close by, so long as they're closer to Falcon's Hallow than any other town.

This kind of thing happens even today. Living on or beyond the outskirts - beyond the suburbs, even - of anything that could reasonably be defined as a built up, proper city-limits, some people are still "living in" (and thus count as the "population of") a town, despite having nothing but effective wilderness around them for miles (though usually it's no more than half a mile, which is actually a pretty decent distance on foot or horseback).

Again, I don't know if that works for Falcon's Hallow - I don't know the set up, region, or anything like that - but that's one idea I had for why a population might say two very different things.

It's possible that the 1400 number counts those working and living in the lumber camps, while the 314 is only those in town.

I know all the literature says that everyone works in the lumber business, but I still think they'd need farms. Importing food is hard and expensive. Cheaper just to grow/raise it nearby.

[Tacticslion]

Exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of. :)

[Lopke]

^^ stuff is correct.

Both your numbers can be assumed to be correct.

1400 = Includes the outlying farms, but especially the two lumber camps on the edges of Darkmoon Vale.

315 = Actual population in town in Falcon's Hollow.
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Alternatively, you could say that the outcome from Carnival of Tears brought down the population, as was mentioned early on. Read the module (if you're GMing) to understand why. Oh, and don't eat the pies.