A Lyre of Building Costs How Much?!

[ChillbBro Baggins]

Okay, so I was trying to figure out exactly how the Lyre of Building only costs 13,000 gp.

The construction requirements say:

* Craft Wondrous Item feat (caster level = 3rd)

* Fabricate Spell (5th level spell, min caster level = 9th)

* 6,500 gp in materials

So, when I look at the Table for Estimating Gold Piece Values (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#Table-Estimating-Magic-Item-Gold-Piece -Values), it says that "Use-activated or continuous items cost Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp". But, that can't be accurate, because it comes out to 90,000 gp.

Then I notice that items that require a skill to use should be reduced in cost around 10%. This also cannot be right, because that only takes it down to 81,000.

Then I notice that charged items have a base cost of "Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)". Well, it has a single charge a week for the building component, and a daily charge for the attack negation effect. So, how to cost that out?

If we use the attack negation effect, the equation becomes Adjusted Base Cost = Base Cost / (5/1 charge/day) which would be 18,000 gp. Closer, but still not right.

If we use the building effect, it essentially has 1/7th of a charge per day (it can only be used once a week). The equation becomes Adjusted Base Cost = Base Cost / (5/(1/7 charge per day)), which comes out to 2,571 gp. Clearly, this isn't the right approach either.

So, I don't get it. What am I doing wrong?

[Grick]

ChillbBro Baggins wrote:

What am I doing wrong?

You're using the guidelines for custom item creation on an existing pre-priced item.

For items that exist, use the prices listed.

For creating new custom items, compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

[Davor]

^this is 100% correct.

[LazarX]

Remember when it come to items brought over from 3.5, They were constructed before any notion of a formula came to be. Especially those like the lyre which date all the way back from First Edition.

But maybe the fact that this drove you to distraction might be a sign that you're overthinking this game in terms of math?

[Selgard]

Even without the fact that its a heritage item-

the last step is basically "is this too expensive for what it does" and "is it too cheap for what it does".

a 90,000 gold lyre of building is used for exactly one thing. 45,000 cash in value.

And really at 13,000 its really good for 7500 cash in value unless you have something specific in mind for it as a character. Its very much a niche item.

-S

[ChillbBro Baggins]

I don't think that I am necessarily over-thinking it... I missed a lot of the history of the game during the years that I spent playing Rolemaster and HERO/Champions, so some things are just not inherently obvious to me...

The reason I was thinking about all of this is that I have just started running a campaign with a much lower level of magic in it than the standard game seems designed for. I have said that all magic items must be commissioned (or found); the listed cost just seemed to low for how powerful an item it can be.

I agree that it is a very niche item, but it's one that the PCs would benefit immensely from as they try to build fortifications and a city to serve as the seat of power for the independent duchy they have found themselves responsible for.

Thanks for your help!

[Selgard]

ChillbBro Baggins wrote:

I don't think that I am necessarily over-thinking it... I missed a lot of the history of the game during the years that I spent playing Rolemaster and HERO/Champions, so some things are just not inherently obvious to me...

The reason I was thinking about all of this is that I have just started running a campaign with a much lower level of magic in it than the standard game seems designed for. I have said that all magic items must be commissioned (or found); the listed cost just seemed to low for how powerful an item it can be.

I agree that it is a very niche item, but it's one that the PCs would benefit immensely from as they try to build fortifications and a city to serve as the seat of power for the independent duchy they have found themselves responsible for.

Thanks for your help!

In a low magic campaign I'd advise just increasing the cost of the item, honestly. In a truly low magic campaign things like fortifications and whatnot will be /far/ more effective and that would mean the item would increase in value accordingly. (just like a +1 sword goes up in price when the best in the world is a +2)

-S