Question,
Up thread, you made a suggestion that we could swap gunslinger for shifter or a similar class.
Would that still be possible? I'm considering a shifter/barbarian or possibly shapeshifter ranger who is a full on natural attack monstrosity, taking advantage of the massive point buy as much as possible.
that's fine
Currently leaning toward a Black Powder Brawler but flirting with Haunted Gun. I don't know if the Haunted Gun is good or not, but it's really cool and thematic.For the Haunted Gun, the Witch Haunt feature implies that the bonded gun is an intelligent item familiar. It provides Alertness, Empathic Link, and Speak with Master. Could that work with Mythic Cackle?
Mythic Cackle: The witch's familiar can cackle as a standard action, which functions as if the witch had cackled.
I thought it would be cool if it was similar to the Haunt Trap deed with the sound of rattling chains and such.
** spoiler omitted **Seems like this one slipped through, so re-posting.
that's fine
I think you missed the following two questions from the huge post above:
When you say there's no limit on max abilities, does it mean we can start with above 18 in scores before racials? 19 cost 4, 20\21 cost 5 etc?
I kind of want to use the spheres of might Magus archtype runic knight. Spellstrike from it works with guns, but unfortunately spell combat still require a melee weapon. Would it be possible to allow using spell combat with guns for this archtype? Alternatively, could I combine Eldritch archer and runic Knight despite them not normally stacking, getting ranged spell combat at 8 and ranged spell strike at 2?
(Though if spell strike turns out to be useless, I might go in a different direction entirely).
swapping is fine
My inclination is to use the unchained action economy, but just house rule and tweak the stuff (like the swift action issue) if there are concerns about for various builds.
Touch AC does not include shield bonuses, or armor enhancement bonuses. Modern firearms attack touch AC within the first 5 increments. Defense (Armor as DR) includes shield bonuses and the armor enhancement, making it substantially higher. Not necessarily bad, just curious.
Yes, I want it to be higher so the monsters don't disappear as easily under the hailstorm of lead these characters are going to be dropping every round.
My inclination is to use the unchained action economy, but just house rule and tweak the stuff (like the swift action issue) if there are concerns about for various builds.
Yeah, you're the GM, so you decide what way to go.
Since it's not clear if spell combat actually does something, I'll go drop that. Instead I'll go for a Warlord (Desperado)//Sorcerer or a wizard coupled with a sphere of might class.
Does anyone know if there’s a write up of the Legendary Fighters class? I’m really interested in going that route from what I’ve heard of it, but can’t find the text anywhere.
My inclination is to use the unchained action economy, but just house rule and tweak the stuff (like the swift action issue) if there are concerns about for various builds.Yeah, you're the GM, so you decide what way to go.
Since it's not clear if spell combat actually does something, I'll go drop that. Instead I'll go for a Warlord (Desperado)//Sorcerer.
I'd say what you get for free is still free. So, in this case, my logic says Spell Combat gives a full-attack plus a spell casting "for free", so that would translate into 3 actions for the full-attack plus the spell for free. If you add Spellstrike, the spell gives you another attack for free to be delivered.
I have to say I'm not building a Magus, but a Shaman archetype which gets Magus features. He will be a Lumbee native, descendant from the Roanoke colonists and inheritor of the blood of the last Croatans, who will be specialized in throwing his fetish dagger.
I agree on the 3 actions for full attack + spell combat giving a free spell casting.
So I just found the Gunslinger Archetype from Spheres of Might... It was not made for working with the Legendary Gunslinger, but they are pretty close, so I figured I would ask.
The Gunslinger Archetype trades out four deeds and a bonus feat at 8th. Technically the Legendary Gunslinger does not have Menacing shot (15th level deed) or Pistol Whip (3rd), and Dead Shot (7th) and Bleeding Wound (11th) are traded out by Solemn Traveler, and the Legendary Gunslinger does not have bonus feats... However, there is a Gun Mastery at 8th that could be a bonus feat.
Can I trade out different deeds from the same levels to make things work with Solemn Traveler? There's Rapid Reload (3rd), Interrogation Shot (7th), Dead Man's Trigger (11th), and Anti-Magic Shot (15th)... Would that be acceptable?
I agree on the 3 actions for full attack + spell combat giving a free spell casting.
So I just found the Gunslinger Archetype from Spheres of Might... It was not made for working with the Legendary Gunslinger, but they are pretty close, so I figured I would ask.
The Gunslinger Archetype trades out four deeds and a bonus feat at 8th. Technically the Legendary Gunslinger does not have Menacing shot (15th level deed) or Pistol Whip (3rd), and Dead Shot (7th) and Bleeding Wound (11th) are traded out by Solemn Traveler, and the Legendary Gunslinger does not have bonus feats... However, there is a Gun Mastery at 8th that could be a bonus feat.
Can I trade out different deeds from the same levels to make things work with Solemn Traveler? There's Rapid Reload (3rd), Interrogation Shot (7th), Dead Man's Trigger (11th), and Anti-Magic Shot (15th)... Would that be acceptable?
that's fine
My inclination is to use the unchained action economy, but just house rule and tweak the stuff (like the swift action issue) if there are concerns about for various builds.Yeah, you're the GM, so you decide what way to go.
Since it's not clear if spell combat actually does something, I'll go drop that. Instead I'll go for a Warlord (Desperado)//Sorcerer.
I'd say what you get for free is still free. So, in this case, my logic says Spell Combat gives a full-attack plus a spell casting "for free", so that would translate into 3 actions for the full-attack plus the spell for free. If you add Spellstrike, the spell gives you another attack for free to be delivered.
I have to say I'm not building a Magus, but a Shaman archetype which gets Magus features. He will be a Lumbee native, descendant from the Roanoke colonists and inheritor of the blood of the last Croatans, who will be specialized in throwing his fetish dagger.
That's the tribe that sacrificed itself to defeat a Bane right? Is your history going to be related to that somehow? I was going to work in the conflict with the Storm-eater into this campaign.
Question about the Dreamscarred werewolf template. Does the template completely supersede the base human race template, or do we get benefits from both?
Not related, but I was curious: would kitsunes be allowed in the game? I think the pathfinder version could be brought in line with the other were-creatures with a little tweaking (mostly giving them a DR-/silver and giving them Fox Shape from the start so they get all 3 forms like the other were-creatures), but looking at WW:A fluff, they seem to be mostly isolated in Asia barring the odd immigrant, so I'm not too serious on making my character one.
Yeah, that's the tribe. The PC is not related to the past events where the Eater of Souls was banned. He's related to an old prophecy about the return of the Croatans when the Apocalypse comes near, though.
I've been googling a bit and it seems the Lumbee is a tribe which was formed by scattered remains of other tribes, and one of those tribes was the Croatoans mentioned in the stories about the disappearance of the Roanoke Island colony in the 16th century (just when the Croatans disappeared also), in North Carolina. So the idea is that the PC is a member of the Lumbee tribe, and a Werewolf, but he finds an old fetish which contains a powerful turtle spirit (Turtle is the tribe totem of the Croatans) which reveals he bears Croatan blood, and well, we all know what happens after (he probably dies after rolling a 1 on a saving throw).
Actually, there's a famous member of the Lumbee tribe, Henry Berry Lowrie, who made a name fighting for his people's rights around the 1860's, and probably I will (loosely) base the PC on him, starting as a young lad in his late teens.
Question about the Dreamscarred werewolf template. Does the template completely supersede the base human race template, or do we get benefits from both?
Not related, but I was curious: would kitsunes be allowed in the game? I think the pathfinder version could be brought in line with the other were-creatures with a little tweaking (mostly giving them a DR-/silver and giving them Fox Shape from the start so they get all 3 forms like the other were-creatures), but looking at WW:A fluff, they seem to be mostly isolated in Asia barring the odd immigrant, so I'm not too serious on making my character one.
I think templates always stack with the base chasis, unless I'm misunderstanding. I'd assume you get all human abilities and all template abilities. Isn't it the same if you make like a 15th level elf ghost -- you get all abilities for a 15th level elf and then stack the ghost abilities on top. Same thing here I think right?
I don't want a ton of non werewolves -- I'm okay with it in principle -- other were creatures are a part of the lore, though a lot of them have a very hostile relationship with the werewolves.
We have one coyote entry, and if we had that and a kistune, and a party of 8, I'm okay with that, but I do want most people making werewolves.
You'd have to make up some kind of story to get the character from Asia too. Everyone is starting out in Salt Lake City some time in the mid to late 1800s (still deciding exactly what date), so there has to be a reason for the character to be there.
Yeah, that's the tribe. The PC is not related to the past events where the Eater of Souls was banned. He's related to an old prophecy about the return of the Croatans when the Apocalypse comes near, though.
I've been googling a bit and it seems the Lumbee is a tribe which was formed by scattered remains of other tribes, and one of those tribes was the Croatoans mentioned in the stories about the disappearance of the Roanoke Island colony in the 16th century (just when the Croatans disappeared also), in North Carolina. So the idea is that the PC is a member of the Lumbee tribe, and a Werewolf, but he finds an old fetish which contains a powerful turtle spirit (Turtle is the tribe totem of the Croatans) which reveals he bears Croatan blood, and well, we all know what happens after (he probably dies after rolling a 1 on a saving throw).
Actually, there's a famous member of the Lumbee tribe, Henry Berry Lowrie, who made a name fighting for his people's rights around the 1860's, and probably I will (loosely) base the PC on him, starting as a young lad in his late teens.
sounds awesome, looking forward to seeing what you put together
This is one of the cool sites you'll have an opportunity to visit. It's a real life fantasy land resort called Saltair that was built on pillars on the salt lake.
Question about the Dreamscarred werewolf template. Does the template completely supersede the base human race template, or do we get benefits from both?
Not related, but I was curious: would kitsunes be allowed in the game? I think the pathfinder version could be brought in line with the other were-creatures with a little tweaking (mostly giving them a DR-/silver and giving them Fox Shape from the start so they get all 3 forms like the other were-creatures), but looking at WW:A fluff, they seem to be mostly isolated in Asia barring the odd immigrant, so I'm not too serious on making my character one.
I think templates always stack with the base chasis, unless I'm misunderstanding. I'd assume you get all human abilities and all template abilities. Isn't it the same if you make like a 15th level elf ghost -- you get all abilities for a 15th level elf and then stack the ghost abilities on top. Same thing here I think right?
I don't want a ton of non werewolves -- I'm okay with it in principle -- other were creatures are a part of the lore, though a lot of them have a very hostile relationship with the werewolves.
We have one coyote entry, and if we had that and a kistune, and a party of 8, I'm okay with that, but I do want most people making werewolves.
You'd have to make up some kind of story to get the character from Asia too. Everyone is starting out in Salt Lake City some time in the mid to late 1800s (still deciding exactly what date), so there has to be a reason for the character to be there.
Thanks for the ruling, Sebecloki. I'll adjust accordingly. I probably won't be using kitsune thinking on it. Getting one into the setting seems to be far too convoluted given the time period.
I think it will be easier to role play a character that has some reason to be there -- the werewolves also had a big prehistorical war with the other werecreatures, so that's going to be another barrier socially to having a kitsune involved.
To pair with the Haunted Gun:
Hedgewitch: Black Magic tradition: Tradition Benefit: Choose an oracle curse. You gain this curse and its associated benefits, using your hedgewitch level as your effective oracle level.
Effect: Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction. Add mage hand and ghost sound to your list of spells known.
At 5th level, add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known.
At 10th level, add telekinesis to your list of spells known.
At 15th level, add reverse gravity to your list of spells known.
Translating the curse into Spheres of Power seems like it would give the telekinesis and Illusion spheres with a telekinesis power at the level upgrades. Or maybe telekinesis and the Cantrips feat. Do either of those seem reasonable?
To pair with the Haunted Gun:
Hedgewitch: Black Magic tradition: Tradition Benefit: Choose an oracle curse. You gain this curse and its associated benefits, using your hedgewitch level as your effective oracle level.
** spoiler omitted **
Translating the curse into Spheres of Power seems like it would give the telekinesis and Illusion spheres with a telekinesis power at the level upgrades. Or maybe telekinesis and the Cantrips feat. Do either of those seem reasonable?
sounds fine
Oh hey, to all players.
As a reminder, since we are playing with the feat tax rules (aka The Elephant in the Room) A lot of feats have been either merged (like Dodge and Mobility, the various improved combat maneuvers) or completely removed/turned into standard attack action toggles (Deadly Aim, Power Attack, Combat Expertise). Remember to check the appendices to see which ones were changed/ merged and plan accordingly.
This literally dropped 4 required feats that I previously had to squeeze to fit into my feat train and now I can make room for all of the fun stuff.
Also, if people need another feat or two for a build, there's a justification in downtime training for that. Also major flaws.
Seb, in your OP, you mentioned starting around the 1850s, though you have yet to settle on an exact date.
Will we be starting at least around then? I would like to make a Seminole warrior who survived the Seminole Wars, which I believe ended around 1842 or so.
I'm unsure why or how he's made his way to Salt Lake City, but perhaps he's escorting a fellow PC?
Also, PCs, it would behoove you to check out the auspices and pick one to base your character around. I'm unsure how much of the WtA lore, myth and cosmology Sebecloki is going to be using, but tying your PC to one of the 5 auspices is probably a good idea, regardless.
It looks like s couple of you know this lore better than me, so may need to keep me on track, but I'm going to be using the whole setting, and shoe-horning Pathfinder stuff into it -- so, the evil outsiders would be retooled/refluffed to fit into the Umbra instead of having a Nine Hells, etc.
The only area I may add something is with extra terrestrial elements -- I want to do something like Cowboys and Aliens potentially, and I don't think that's really a part of the WoD setting.
I'm still thinking about somewhere between the 1850s-1870s, I may play fast and loose with when a couple of buildings were constructed to get the setting I want. I'm trying to decide if I want to start before or after the Civil War, since that could offer a lot of plot possibilities if players could get involved in major battles and other historical events.
Can we be base our characters on historical figures? Obviously it'd have to be pretty loose, since the historical characters wouldn't be werewolves, magicians, etc.
Can we be base our characters on historical figures? Obviously it'd have to be pretty loose, since the historical characters wouldn't be werewolves, magicians, etc.
That's fine -- there will be lots of historical detail but it's not going to be confined by history. Like, buildings might be constructed at a different date, or battles turn out differently, and so forth.
Also, you bring up another good point -- there are also vampires, ghosts, mummies, mages, and assorted other supernatural creatures running around. That's what I was trying to get at with my description of power level and genre -- I'm working with the assumption of lots of magic and supernatural stuff, not just werewolves, it's just that everyone's not aware of it, but it's definitely there.
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Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter?
I'd prefer you not be someone that important, but basically the idea, yes.
Heh, was mostly a reference to the book/movie of the same name.
Oh, hey got another question for you. Since skill unlocks are free for everyone and the UC Rogue and the L. 'Slinger gets skill unlocks as part of their class progression (5th, 10th, 15th, 20th and 6th, 12th, 18th; respectively) is it okay if we swap them out bonus feats instead?
Though in my case would I take the faster progression as per gestalt rules, even though they're slightly different in execution?
EDIT: Actually scratch that last thought. Of course I'd get both since they're class features.
Heh, was mostly a reference to the book/movie of the same name.
Oh, hey got another question for you. Since skill unlocks are free for everyone and the UC Rogue and the L. 'Slinger gets skill unlocks as part of their class progression (5th, 10th, 15th, 20th and 6th, 12th, 18th; respectively) is it okay if we swap them out bonus feats instead?
Though in my case would I take the faster progression as per gestalt rules, even though they're slightly different in execution?EDIT: Actually scratch that last thought. Of course I'd get both since they're class features.
that's fine
that's fine
Cool. One last question for tonight.
Did you ever rule if we're going with APB rules or not? I remember you mentioning it a while back, but I don't remember a definitive answer with that.
I'll open it up to opinions -- I usually use it bc I find the magic item Xmas tree silly. I'm open to arguments, let's hear some opinions about what people want.
I definitely prefer ABP as it not only simplifies things, but it lessens the concern of needing to get those essential items.
If you do in fact plan on using it, I would suggest boosting up several levels to determine our bonuses from it, similar to your Dark Sun game. In fact, for this one, it might be best to boost up 3-5 levels, as opposed to the +2 of the DS. Though, I guess a lot of that gets mitigated by our insane stats.
The + 2 is supposed to be for games without almost any magical items, what's your argument for making it even higher (I'm open, I just want to hear the reasoning).
I'm a fan of ABP.
I'm considering using the Legendary Shifter from LG, if you'll allow me to, I'll post all the class features in my profile, much like I did with Dhaunae and will do for Hamza.
that's fine -- I'm actually interested in what they did with the class, I know it got a rough reception upon release and had to be 'fixed' basically.
Mythic feats: do we have 2 or 4?
that actually raises the question for me -- what is the normal rule -- if you get 1 feat a level for a single class character, I guess that means you get 2 a level as gestalt, since you'd get the fighter bonus feats.
So I think that means you should have 8 normal feats and 4 mythic feats
I am okay with that. Surprising, right? ;)
Ooh, sweet. And here I was, about to ask for the possibility of getting Weapon Proficiency (axes) as a bonus feat. I guess I don’t need to worry about that now.
Probably going to get the Greater Werewolf prestige class on my ‘martial’ side.
I'm now wondering what this means for skill points too -- does that mean you get the better advancement, or points from each 'side' of the gestalt?
Better advancement.
I forgot I also wanted to use background skills.
I'm looking at ABP -- how would we feel about starting as if 5th level characters? That seems to encompass the first 'tier' of bonuses.
Also, I'm going to gather all these rules into a file once we've finished sorting through the relevant issues so I can have them for reference in designing NPCs as well as for player consultation.
In gestalt, you always get the better progress of all features.
For example, if you went fighter/swashbuckler, you would get the bonus feats of the fighter, but not the ones of the swashbuckler, as they grant bonus combat feats. However, you would keep the SB's ability to learn a new feat, as the fighter lacks that ability.
You would also get the SB's skill progression, as it's better than the fighter's.
Ooh, sweet. And here I was, about to ask for the possibility of getting Weapon Proficiency (axes) as a bonus feat. I guess I don’t need to worry about that now.
Probably going to get the Greater Werewolf prestige class on my ‘martial’ side.
That prestige class is dope. Is it from Lords of the Wild?
I forgot I also wanted to use background skills.
I'm looking at ABP -- how would we feel about starting as if 5th level characters? That seems to encompass the first 'tier' of bonuses.
Yes! Wait, actually 5th level, or just ABP?
So, I'm looking at weapon choices. How double barreled shotgun works seems a bit unclear to me. I figure it's best if it's somewhat similar to rifle in powerlevel so we're not forced into all using the same weapon. How does the following interactions work:
A) Scattershot with spellstrike or PoW strikes? Do you apply the effect of the spell\strike to every target hit? That seems to be the most logical way to play it, but it's powerful.
B) Double Shot... It's normally a standard action to fire both barrels for 2d8 per bullet plus static bonuses, but at a -4 to hit. Is it a single or a double action? Can you do -4/-4/-9/-9(/-14/-14)?
C) If you can do both bullets as a single action, can you Vital Strike with them? So 4d8 per bullet? 2d10 from a rifle has a hard time competing with 8d8...
--
I'm also in favour of ABP. The idea behind making it count as higher level is probably to make the items more in line with the power of the rest of our characters. Gear also give a large portion of defensive power, so it might balance out offense\defense ever so slightly.
For the action economy issue I would like to echo the previous suggestion that everyone get an extra action that can only be used for swift.
One feat per level usually means 4 feats, you don't duplicate those for gestalt... But I won't have a problem putting 8 feats and 4 mythic to good use either.