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I like blade dash... but of course my players managed to missuse it in their first casting of the spell.
I want to clarify because the rules are not clear.
can a player blade dash through a creature?
since blade dash states that the creatures do not get an attack of opportunity my players have assumed that it means that the caster can pass directly through a target without provoking attack or requiring any form of acrobatics.
since the magus in many cases can cast spells and atack in the same round... can they basically use blade dash with spell strike to move 30 feet attacking a creature allong the way being free to make his attack at the end of the charge. in other words using the charge to move and get a free attack but also able to make an attack at the end of the round, .
The spell wording is unclear as what kind of movement it is.
Some think it is similar to teleport and thus you just arrive where you want to.
Others think it is normal movement thus difficult terrain or other stuff apply.
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The spell allows you to move, not charge.
With that aside if you can not provoke for moving then you can pass though eneny squares since the only reason for the acrobatics check is to avoid the AoE.
Going back to charging, even if the spell said you could charge, and avoid AoO's, it would not bypass the other charging rules that have to be accounted for such as moving thought occupied squares.
With that aside if you can not provoke for moving then you can pass though eneny squares since the only reason for the acrobatics check is to avoid the AoE.
I disagree entirely. When it comes to moving through someone's space, the acrobatics check is both to avoid an AoO *and* the ability to do so at all. Acrobatics isn't even a trained skill anymore like tumble was in 3E (not that spending 1 skill point is so painful anyway), if what you say is the case ANYONE could just trade moving through an enemy's space for taking an AoO, since apparently failing the acrobatics check won't stop you.
Fortunately, that's not the case, and there still is a reason for the Overrun combat maneuver to exist.
Acrobatics says:
" If you attempt to move though an enemy's space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity."
See that? You don't just provoke, you lose the move action. In other words: Access Denied!
Now, this whole deal was much more clear in 3E, as is almost always the case. Paizo butchered the rules text to save page space or something.
Here is the more expanded description of what goes on from the 3E tumble rules, on the table alongside the "DC 25":
"Tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied by an enemy (over, under, or around the opponent) as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy. Check separately for each opponent. Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC."
I agree. I ruled that players can use the ability to move in a straight line following charge rules (flat terrain, no obstacles etc) and can make teir free attack as a part of that movement. My players tried to argue that no AoO means they can basically run through the opponents legs or some such and conveniently move into flanking.
he also combines it with he spell combat in order to get movement and 2 attacks in a round (spell=(move and attack) + normal attack)
He's free to attempt the acrobatics check to try, and is at no risk of provoking an AoO if he fails. But his movement from bladed dash would instantly be terminated if he failed. Not worth the risk, IMO, especially if you haven't taken the attack it grants yet.
| 9 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I dont think you can blade dash AND acrobatics check. its not a normal movement its an "instantaneous" effect A player can for example move 30 then cast blade dash and move the next 30. .... in fact a character that is some how other wise hindered (like a halfling in heavy armor which normally limits him to 15 feet) can move 15 and blade dash 30.
I think the spell should be expanded on to explain it better.
-- can it be used with spell combat to allow a level 4 magus to get 30 feet of movement and 2 attacks?
-- is the movement granted by the spell up to 30 feet or up to one normal move (thus a halfling magus would normally get only 20 feet from blade dash but someone with a normal move of 50 could blade dash 50 feet)
-- can any abilities be used with the blade dash attack (can the caster use trip, disarm, get flanking bonus, make sneak attacks?)
-- can it be used in hazardous terrain like caltrops, rocks or entanglement?
-- if the caster is invisible at the time of casting do they still leave a rainbow trail?
-- can the caster move ANY direction including into the air, over a chasm, or through walls and opponents?
there are probably other questions I am missing.
please mark for FAQ
For comparison, see the spell Burst of Speed. It explicitly allows you to move through larger creature''s spaces.
As such, if Bladed Dash does not include a similar clause, its pretty clear it should not allow you to do so.
good point.
also the fact that blade dash is only level 2 so it should not have the versatility of a level 3 spell.
having said that. clarification would be helpful.
hope the FAQ hits it some day.
I find it interesting that burst of speed has a much shorter wording but much clearer explanation.
-- can it be used with spell combat to allow a level 4 magus to get 30 feet of movement and 2 attacks?
this one is a yes, as written, it's a standard action spell, meaning as long as you take a -2 to hit, you can cast it, hit the guy, and continue spell combating.
-- is the movement granted by the spell up to 30 feet or up to one normal move (thus a halfling magus would normally get only 20 feet from blade dash but someone with a normal move of 50 could blade dash 50 feet)
spell says 30ft, thusly I'm going with it gives you 30 feet, end of story. it's not movement it's an effect of the spell. it would be specified as suffering from encumbrance/armour otherwise.
-- can any abilities be used with the blade dash attack (can the caster use trip, disarm, get flanking bonus, make sneak attacks?)
maybe? sneak attack and flanking bonus yes, because those are passive things that trigger depending on circumstance.
is he in a flanking position? if yes, +2 to hit.is the target denied his dexterity, helpless, etc? if yes, sneak attack is added.
the tricky part are combat maneuvers that can replace an attack.
i'd say yes, because the spell says you make an attack at your highest BAB bonus, but it can go either way.
-- can it be used in hazardous terrain like caltrops, rocks or entanglement?
iffy, depends on how you rule the movement, i'd say yes, you're moving too fast for those to impair you, but it can just as easily go the other way.
-- if the caster is invisible at the time of casting do they still leave a rainbow trail?
yes, but only those with see invisibility or such things would be able to see it. thusly neither spell supersedes the other.
-- can the caster move ANY direction including into the air, over a chasm, or through walls and opponents?
I'd like to say yes, it does say "move any direction" in the spell after all.
however walls, and people are still solid obsticals you'd have to deal with some other way.it doesn't grant a fly speed, so if you moved over something where there;s no ground, you'd fall as soon as you stopped moving.
at least, this is how I see the spell.
It's a poorly worded spell. It should just give you movement equal to your speed, and subject to difficult terrain and everything else mundane movement is, minus the AoOs for moving out of threatened squares.
But that'd be too logical and simple, wouldn't it?
exactly.
It's a poorly worded spell. It should just give you movement equal to your speed, and subject to difficult terrain and everything else mundane movement is, minus the AoOs for moving out of threatened squares.
But that'd be too logical and simple, wouldn't it?
Poorly worded, yes.
The rest: Depends if that was what was intended.I never used it but as I read it you move 30ft no matter what terrain.
Imo you should even be able to move across air (like over a gap) if there is a free space where you end.
The spell itself not even states that the movement is blocked by walls. But that'd be too much.
But as for it's only level 2. No full caster can cast it. Only magus and bard. So (like other bard spells) it is ok, when it is a little stronger than wizard 2nd level spells.
With that aside if you can not provoke for moving then you can pass though eneny squares since the only reason for the acrobatics check is to avoid the AoE.I disagree entirely. When it comes to moving through someone's space, the acrobatics check is both to avoid an AoO *and* the ability to do so at all. Acrobatics isn't even a trained skill anymore like tumble was in 3E (not that spending 1 skill point is so painful anyway), if what you say is the case ANYONE could just trade moving through an enemy's space for taking an AoO, since apparently failing the acrobatics check won't stop you.
Fortunately, that's not the case, and there still is a reason for the Overrun combat maneuver to exist.
Acrobatics says:
" If you attempt to move though an enemy's space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity."
See that? You don't just provoke, you lose the move action. In other words: Access Denied!
Now, this whole deal was much more clear in 3E, as is almost always the case. Paizo butchered the rules text to save page space or something.
Here is the more expanded description of what goes on from the 3E tumble rules, on the table alongside the "DC 25":
"Tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied by an enemy (over, under, or around the opponent) as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy. Check separately for each opponent. Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC."
I stand corrected. :)
But as for it's only level 2. No full caster can cast it. Only magus and bard. So (like other bard spells) it is ok, when it is a little stronger than wizard 2nd level spells.
It's pretty darn good for Magus. Compare it to the 3rd level, Force Hook spell. Both let you close to an enemy and then full attack (spell combat), the 3rd level has longer range, but this one means you don't provoke unlike the 3rd AND you get an extra attack! AND it can double as a means to full attack, attack again, and then retreat away so the enemy can't full attack you back!
Range really isn't worth all those other benefits, and even if it were, aren't higher level spells supposed to be better than lower level ones, not just equal?
Great Magus spell. Needs no additional "help."
But as for it's only level 2. No full caster can cast it. Only magus and bard. So (like other bard spells) it is ok, when it is a little stronger than wizard 2nd level spells.It's pretty darn good for Magus. Compare it to the 3rd level, Force Hook spell. Both let you close to an enemy and then full attack (spell combat), the 3rd level has longer range, but this one means you don't provoke unlike the 3rd AND you get an extra attack! AND it can double as a means to full attack, attack again, and then retreat away so the enemy can't full attack you back!
Range really isn't worth all those other benefits, and even if it were, aren't higher level spells supposed to be better than lower level ones, not just equal?
Great Magus spell. Needs no additional "help."
While I agree with your general assessment, I feel like it should be noted that Force Hook Charge is a great spell because of the fact that it does things like allow you to change elevations, and cross chasms. And it allows you to do those things out of combat (because it functions on a miss), as well... meaning it can sub in for things like levitate for climbing sheer surfaces, etc.
Both spells have their places, and both are great as is.
When I initially read this spell, I took the "any direction" statement to include vertical movement. If this is the case it seems like difficult terrain should hardly bother you when you can walk on air. However, after reading people's thoughts here, and remembering it is only a level 2 spell, I am unsure.
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Well you certainly aren't teleporting during that spell. Teleportation is the realm of Conjuration, not Transmutation.
Move in a straight line, no AOO's, nothing grants the ability to pass through people's squares or to ignore difficult terrain (though other spells could certainly allow that tactic to work it.)
There is no reason that your player couldn't invest time and money to create their own version of the spell that would allow that, with of course your arbitration.
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As far as the vertical movement, difficult terrain, across chasms, environmental hazards question, I'd say that yes, you move as the spell states, "up to 30 feet in a straight line any direction." That said, people are separate obstacles.
Moving through an opponent should require the Acrobatics check it would otherwise necessitate. A case could also be made that they're moving through at full-speed, so they would need to add 10 to the normal DC (5 + opponent's CMD) to not lose a square of movement to do so. Personally, I think it's going to be hard enough to make the normal DC unless you're training yourself in Acrobatics, so I wouldn't bother with the +10. That said, if they fail the DC, they stop immediately before the opponent, but do not provoke (as the spell states; it would just function as if you had chosen to not move the full 30 feet).
Obstacles that would normally actually stop your movement, like running into somebody or running into a wall or door, should stop the movement.
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I like blade dash... but of course my players managed to missuse it in their first casting of the spell.
I want to clarify because the rules are not clear.
can a player blade dash through a creature?
since blade dash states that the creatures do not get an attack of opportunity my players have assumed that it means that the caster can pass directly through a target without provoking attack or requiring any form of acrobatics.
since the magus in many cases can cast spells and atack in the same round... can they basically use blade dash with spell strike to move 30 feet attacking a creature allong the way being free to make his attack at the end of the charge. in other words using the charge to move and get a free attack but also able to make an attack at the end of the round, .
I also would like this clarified as I have a player that seems to abuse this spell and even once tried to tell me that while prone he could come up and attack the opponent after being on his tush( I squashed that one really fast).
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I like blade dash... but of course my players managed to missuse it in their first casting of the spell.
I want to clarify because the rules are not clear.
can a player blade dash through a creature?
since blade dash states that the creatures do not get an attack of opportunity my players have assumed that it means that the caster can pass directly through a target without provoking attack or requiring any form of acrobatics.
since the magus in many cases can cast spells and atack in the same round... can they basically use blade dash with spell strike to move 30 feet attacking a creature allong the way being free to make his attack at the end of the charge. in other words using the charge to move and get a free attack but also able to make an attack at the end of the round, .
I would like this clarified also as I have a player who seems to abuse this spell and evn once tried to use the spell to attack from a prone position and said he could attack his opponent coming up from his prone position(I squashed that one fast).
I think it's fair to clarify if you could use it to dash through an enemy (combined with Acrobatics or otherwise).
It definitely is not a teleport, as the flavor text indicates that you temporarily leave "a multi-hued cascade of images behind you"; you are actually moving through the intervening space.
As to whether it can handle vertical movement, I don't know that it needs clarified; it says, "...in any direction." 'Up' is a direction (and a movie by Pixar).
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Hello Morganwolf, it was nice playing PFS at the game store in which you had set up gaming last night. I believe the rules state that you move in a strait line with this spell. The rules also state that you can not move into an enemy's square.
I would assume when you use this spell, spell combat or not, as long as you don't move through an enemy's square you are fine. As for flying up and attacking.
I would allow this if the caster can fly normally. I would only allow you to move in a direction in which you have a speed for it, flying, climbing, swimming or even Earth glide, then I would be ok with it.
Thinking about it, this is what I have come up with.
Hope this helps,
Your friend, the tall guy
How the hell is your player using Charge (A special full round action) and Spell Combat (A special full round action) at the same time?
Someone dun goofed.
You can't cast a spell in the same turn you charge. This is madness.
Blade Dash is normal movement across a 30 foot line and allows 1 attack during that line. I would assume if the movement doesn't provoke, then moving through someone's space doesn't provoke.
When i used this my Dm said it followed normal movement rules (ie cant move through enemies etc) and while its clear from the Spell (any direction) he said we needed some sort of surface to move on or be flying.
So 30' over watr is fine, or 30' straight up a wall, or any direction if already flying. Its not raw but fit what i wanted to do with the spell so was fine with it.
Ultimately, its best to just follow normal movement rules otherwise the lvl 2 spell may as well be a 30' teleport if your going to ignore that stuff.
How the hell is your player using Charge (A special full round action) and Spell Combat (A special full round action) at the same time?
Someone dun goofed.
You can't cast a spell in the same turn you charge. This is madness.
Blade Dash is normal movement across a 30 foot line and allows 1 attack during that line. I would assume if the movement doesn't provoke, then moving through someone's space doesn't provoke.
I don't think that they're talking about the 'charge' action, but mistakenly referring to the movement as a charge.
My reading would indicate that you could use Bladed Dash in conjunction with Spell Combat to close with an opponent, take the attack noted by the spell, and still take all your BAB iterative attacks. The movement is part of the spell, not a movement action, meaning that you still have your full-round action to perform Spell Combat.
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How the hell is your player using Charge (A special full round action) and Spell Combat (A special full round action) at the same time?
Someone dun goofed.
You can't cast a spell in the same turn you charge. This is madness.
Blade Dash is normal movement across a 30 foot line and allows 1 attack during that line. I would assume if the movement doesn't provoke, then moving through someone's space doesn't provoke.I don't think that they're talking about the 'charge' action, but mistakenly referring to the movement as a charge.
My reading would indicate that you could use Bladed Dash in conjunction with Spell Combat to close with an opponent, take the attack noted by the spell, and still take all your BAB iterative attacks. The movement is part of the spell, not a movement action, meaning that you still have your full-round action to perform Spell Combat.
According to the player he can move 30 feet then do a full attack action or is it only 1 attack?
where is this spell again I don't use Magus's often enough.
According to the player he can move 30 feet then do a full attack action or is it only 1 attack?
If he uses this with spell combat he does indeed get his full attack.
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I don't think that they're talking about the 'charge' action, but mistakenly referring to the movement as a charge.
My reading would indicate that you could use Bladed Dash in conjunction with Spell Combat to close with an opponent, take the attack noted by the spell, and still take all your BAB iterative attacks. The movement is part of the spell, not a movement action, meaning that you still have your full-round action to perform Spell Combat.
According to the player he can move 30 feet then do a full attack action or is it only 1 attack?
where is this spell again I don't use Magus's often enough.
The spell is in the Inner Sea Magic. I was rethinking some of what I posted earlier. As for being under water, it takes 20 feet of movement to swim one square and the spell moves you up to 30 feet; Hence, you could only move one square. If you are on the ocean floor then the spell would take you three squares strait because each square is ten feet to enter not 5. As for climbing, the spell moves you immediately up to 30 feet and I say it is not possible to climb that fast with out a climb speed.
It says this in the Inner Sea Guide about the spell, "You must end the bonus movement granted by this spell in an unoccupied square. If no such space is available along the trajectory, the spell fails." That is why people use the word charge, it kind of follows the same rules.
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I don't think that they're talking about the 'charge' action, but mistakenly referring to the movement as a charge.
In this you are correct it either is a CHARGE! or not and this is not indicated just because something is listed as having the effect of a certain action doesn't mean it is that exact action, just that it resembles it.
My reading would indicate that you could use Bladed Dash in conjunction with Spell Combat to close with an opponent, take the attack noted by the spell, and still take all your BAB iterative attacks. The movement is part of the spell, not a movement action, meaning that you still have your full-round action to perform Spell Combat.
According to certain players the Magus can move 30 feet then do a full attack action or is it only 1 attack?
Lets check out the exact spells wording as follows:When you cast this spell, you immediately move up to 30
feet in a straight line any direction, momentarily leaving a
multi-hued cascade of images behind you. This movement
does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You may make a
single melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against
any one creature you are adjacent to at any point along this 30
feet. You gain a circumstance bonus on your attack roll equal
to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier, whichever is higher.
You must end the bonus movement granted by this spell in
an unoccupied square. If no such space is available along the
trajectory, the spell fails. Despite the name, the spell works
with any melee weapon.
Notice the two most specific descriptions noted "make a SINGLE melee attack at your highest BAB against any 1 creature" AND
"You must end the bonus movement granted by this spell in an unoccupied square. If no such space is available along the trajectory, the spell fails."Is the ability of the Magus Spell Combat considered or specified as "a single melee attack" and is the bonus movement considered or specified as a Charge attack?
I think if you analyze this you will see where the confusion ends and what actual actions are used. The word CHARGE is not used anywhere in the spell description therefore you cannot consider it as such and if Spell Combat is considered a single melee attack at your highest BAB then that is what the Magus can accomplish otherwise don't read into it as something else just because the player thinks it benefits them in that way. If you read it verbatim then you can also assume you can move into the ground as earth glide to attack a burrowing creature or fly up to a foe to smack him or go thru a wall to attack your foe; nowhere does it say that movement is not impeded, therefore any terrain condition or physical barrier will halt that movement NO teleport is indicated whatsoever. Is this really what was meant by the spell!, I think some rules knowledge and common sense needs to be used here. This spell most likely was to be used to attack a single target without provoking along with gaining extra movement after having moved your standard speed(why it is considered a BONUS movement meaning EXTRA movement) and not be able to reach your opponent yet.
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@ Morganwolf
The reason why people are saying that a Magus can use this spell and get a full-attack action at the end of it is as follows (emphasis mine):
At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
Thus, by strict RAW interpretation, a completely legal combination of actions would be:
(1) Cast Bladed Dash
(2) Move 30 ft., ending adjacent to opponent
(3) Make Bladed Dash free attack, with -2 penalty [can happen anywhere along the movement described in (2), or can wait until the end]
(4) Make normal weapon attack(s) with relevant -2 penalties
(5) End turn
Thus, the full-attack possibility is completely legal.
@jlighter: Exactly. Although Bladed Dash isn't a touch spell, it functions similarly to using Spell Combat\Spellstrike in that it winds up granting you an extra melee attack (because the spell says so).
@thisledown: That is my reading also, thistledown. The spell is granting you magical movement. Whether you normally have a swim speed or a fly speed is irrelevant; the spell is basically 'launching' you along a straight line for (up to) 30 feet.
The one thing that I would not allow (without the relevant movement speed) is burrowing.
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Since no one has cited it:
Opponent: You can't move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.
So tumbling or overrun allowing you to move through a enemy square are exceptions, not the norm.
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Since no one has cited it:
Opponent: You can't move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.
So tumbling or overrun allowing you to move through a enemy square are an exception, not the norm.
Nobody is debating the norm. They are debating if Bladed Dash is an exception.
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Nobody is debating the norm. They are debating if Bladed Dash is an exception.Since no one has cited it:
Opponent: You can't move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.
So tumbling or overrun allowing you to move through a enemy square are an exception, not the norm.
I disagree with you. Wraithstrike initial position was that passing through a occupied square was the norm and that the tumbling check was only needed to avoid the AoO.
The spell has nothing in its text that say that its movement work differently from the norm, so it follow the normal rules, so checking what is the norm is relevant.
The spell has nothing in its text that say that its movement work differently from the norm, so it follow the normal rules, so checking what is the norm is relevant.
Except nothing in the spell says to treat it as normal movement either. It says exactly what it does. "You move up to 30'." Period. If it were intended to be normal movement, I think it would have been worded to modify normal movement, possibly with a reference to other types of movement. Instead, it simply moves you where you want to go, so long as it's no further than 30', and in a straight line to an unoccupied square.
I would also point out that the movement granted is not a move action, but part of the spell. It's already an exception. You could, for example, use Bladed Dash to close with an enemy, and then take a 5' step away from the foe because you haven't actually taken a move action.
That said, I don't know that I would allow free movement through an enemy's space. I would be more interested to know, if it doesn't allow free movement, could you make an Acrobatics check as part of the movement granted by the spell in order to try to pass through an enemy's space.
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@jlighter: Exactly. Although Bladed Dash isn't a touch spell, it functions similarly to using Spell Combat\Spellstrike in that it winds up granting you an extra melee attack (because the spell says so).
@thisledown: That is my reading also, thistledown. The spell is granting you magical movement. Whether you normally have a swim speed or a fly speed is irrelevant; the spell is basically 'launching' you along a straight line for (up to) 30 feet.
The one thing that I would not allow (without the relevant movement speed) is burrowing.
I don't think it's a matter of what you wish to allow it's whats possible using the actual rules; if that was the case then you can alter anything you want and that is definitely not LEGAL in pathfinder society in any sense of the word.
If you read it verbatim then you can also assume you can move into the ground as earth glide to attack a burrowing creature or fly up to a foe to smack him or go thru a wall to attack your foe hence what you would allow is not considered(which makes this spell godlike for movement purposes giving the magus the ability to move into or through any terrain)Not what was meant for ONLY a 2nd level spell.
Thus, by strict RAW interpretation, a completely legal combination of actions would be:(1) Cast Bladed Dash
(2) Move 30 ft., ending adjacent to opponent
(3) Make Bladed Dash free attack, with -2 penalty [can happen anywhere along the movement described in (2), or can wait until the end]
(4) Make normal weapon attack(s) with relevant -2 penalties
(5) End turnThus, the full-attack possibility is completely legal.
This sounds more akin to the rules explaining the breakdown as follows
Spell Combat wrote:
At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty)If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first(1) Cast Bladed Dash . then (2) Move 30 ft., ending adjacent to opponent (3) Make Bladed Dash free attack, with -2 penalty [can happen anywhere along the movement described in (2), or can wait until the end] or make the weapon attacks first(4) Make normal weapon attack(s) with relevant -2 penalties , but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks. (5) End turn
Thus, the full-attack possibility is completely legal.
I don't think it's a matter of what you wish to allow it's whats possible using the actual rules; if that was the case then you can alter anything you want and that is definitely not LEGAL in pathfinder society in any sense of the word.
If you read it verbatim then you can also assume you can move into the ground as earth glide to attack a burrowing creature or fly up to a foe to smack him or go thru a wall to attack your foe hence what you would allow is not considered(which makes this spell godlike for movement purposes giving the magus the ability to move in any terrain)Not what was meant for ONLY a 2nd level spell.
I specified that I would not allow burrowing, and for the same reason that I would not allow it to let you move through walls - the spell does not say anything about making you incorporeal or otherwise allowing you to pass through solid matter. So by RAW, I agree that the spell would not allow that.
With those restrictions stated, I disagree with the argument that it's some sort of "God spell" in regards to movement. Fly is only one level higher; Levitate is the same level and could allow you to reach a flying creature to attack (plus it lasts 2 minutes); although the Magus doesn't have any way himself to inherently gain a swim speed, there are a number of options to other classes that are one level lower that grant a long-duration swim speed (like Slipstream).
It's useful, but at 2nd level I probably wouldn't burn more than one spell slot on it - and as the magus levels he gains access to better movement options anyway.
It grants you a single 30-foot burst of movement. I don't see that it's overpowered to allow it to grant a burst of vertical movement or to allow for unimpeded underwater movement, and I don't really see anything in RAW that makes me believe it bars those (intentionally or not).
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Actually, Xaratherus, you could not use Bladed Dash, make a full-attack, and then five-foot step away. Emphasis mine.
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance. ...
I originally thought as you did, so I went and looked it up to make sure.
If I'm interpreting it correctly, the wording also cancels something else I thought was the case. You can't, as an example, case shield, 5-foot step to a wall, and then Climb the wall all in one round. At least, that's how I'm now reading it, since the Climb check involves traveling a distance.
I thought it said you couldn't use it in a round when you'd taken a move action.
So strike that, you're correct - no 5' after using Bladed Dash.
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Only downside with that reading is you could not then drawn a weapon, 5-foot step, and attack. That interpretation is legal. But it looks like it's any action that causes you to change square-location precludes the possibility of using 5-foot step, not just any normal walking/running action the way I thought it was.
You all think Blade Dash is crazy in a magus's hands
read greater dash and add boots of speed....
1) Spell combat cast
2) Move 30' getting attacks on all adjacent targets and the last target, at at +Int to hit (Good chance to use power attack)
3) Click boots of speed
4) Full Attacks + Speed Attack.
I agree though it should be treated like a move, though I would argue it allows you to ignore difficult Ter.
and yes you can use the spell before or after you take a move action, so I can see someone take a 5' step to line up the attack... cast the spell, and do the rest.
@Nunspa: Per FAQ you don't get bonus attacks from Haste when using Spell Combat; Haste grants an extra attack while taking a full attack action; Spell Combat is specifically a full-round action but not a full attack action.
Other than that, yes - Greater Bladed Dash is nasty.
For added fun, cast enlarge person first to give you a 10' reach.