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Guess what?
I guessed right! :)
And as a handy guide to Pathfinder rankings compared to D&D (because that really is the benchmark) for past quarters here are the links:
2009 Q4 D&D 1st, PF 2nd
2010 Q1 D&D 1st, PF 2nd
2010 Q2 D&D 1st, PF 2nd
2010 Q3 D&D & PF 1st
2010 Q4 D&D 1st, PF 2nd
2011 Q1 D&D 1st, PF 2nd
2011 Q2 PF 1st, D&D 2nd
2011 Q3 PF 1st, D&D 2nd
2011 Q4 PF 1st, D&D 2nd
2012 Q1 PF 1st, D&D 2nd
D&D remained at the number 2 spot despite the fact that the announcement of D&D Next came on January 9th 2012 (i.e. right at the start of the quarter). This either shows...
a) there is a massive gap between 2nd and 3rd place (so D&D could afford to drop sales quite a bit before losing the number 2 spot)
b) ICv2 include not just the RPGs in their figures but also stuff like boardgames etc.
c) the D&D 4e RPG is still selling well
d) a mix of all of the above (my guess)
Either way, it continues to show how very popular Pathfinder is, just one more quarter and PF will have been in the number 1 spot as many times as D&D has while the two have been on sale alongside one another - very impressive!!!
DigitalMage: b) is false. Boardgames are a separate category. Heck, in the overall story about how "explosive" hobby games have been, the RPG category didn't even get mentioned until the fifth paragraph. And my understanding is that their rankings only count what goes through distributors, so neither the Paizo web store nor D&D Insider subscriptions. Just sayin'!
Neither do Paizo's subscriptions, which form the core of their business.
This is one of the major reasons I find ICv2 rankings to be more irritating than useful. Which sells best overall is the interesting stat (actually the interest is probably around which is played more). Measuring which sells best in such a restricted (even if very significant) market is no doubt correlated with the interesting stats, but not in a particularly meaningful way.
.It gets worse when you look into the methodology. There's no consistency amongst respondents on whether to count Gamemastery products as Pathfinder, D&D miniatures as D&D, whether to count number of units or dollar value. It was annoying. :(
I'm glad Pathfinder is doing well. I'm not any happier to hear whether it's doing better or worse than anyone else.
Neither do Paizo's subscriptions, which form the core of their business.
Yes, that's what I said. (Since Paizo's subscriptions go through their web store.) So we're in violent agreement! :)
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DigitalMage: b) is false. Boardgames are a separate category.
Interesting, definitely Lords of Waterdeep is a board game separate from D&D 4e, but stuff like Wrath of Ashdalon (or whatever it is called) seems to blur the line between RPG and board game.
And my understanding is that their rankings only count what goes through distributors, so neither the Paizo web store nor D&D Insider subscriptions. Just sayin'!
Oh God yes, the usefulness of these surveys has been debated significantly before, to the point that I just assumed the usual disclaimer :)
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Whether Pathfinder is outselling D&D really doesn't matter all that much. The importance of the figures is that they indicate that Pathfinder is definitely selling very well, which is extremely heartening.
This is one of the major reasons I find ICv2 rankings to be more irritating than useful. Which sells best overall is the interesting stat (actually the interest is probably around which is played more). Measuring which sells best in such a restricted (even if very significant) market is no doubt correlated with the interesting stats, but not in a particularly meaningful way.
You have to realize who the target for the ICv2 rankings and other publications are - the hobby and specialty stores, not the general public or the general economy. Just info about trends in specialty store products and sales for other specialty stores. That's why which game sells best overall isn't as interesting a stat, for this particular purpose.
I can appreciate that. Most statistics are useful in the right circumstance. It's just not useful to me.
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Whether Pathfinder is outselling D&D really doesn't matter all that much. The importance of the figures is that they indicate that Pathfinder is definitely selling very well, which is extremely heartening.
Considering that the position in question is the #1 spot for RPG sales, against the previously unassailable champion, I'd say it actually matters quite a bit.
I strongly suspect that if direct sales and subscriptions were counted, this wouldn't even be a close contest. But, that's just speculation. We also won't know what effect 5th edition will have on the market yet.
In the mean time, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of our favorite system for doing well.
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Again, I feel the need to point out that 4E is maintaining 2nd place, despite a few factors that should be working to it's disadvantage:
1. DDI, which has become the backbone of WotC's 4E sales, is not counted.
2. Because of their focus on DDI, WotC's actual print offerings for 4E, which is what this rating must be based on, have become exceedingly minimal.
3. It would make sense that with D&D Next looming on the horizon, sales for 4E products would begin to taper off.
So really, I don't know if D&D's falling to 2nd place in this ranking is really painting an accurate picture. If D&D Next were to return the focus to print products, I wouldn't be overly surprised if D&D kicked Pathfinder back into the #2 position almost immediately.
That being said, I think that the number ranking is less important that the fact that it can be assumed that BOTH games are doing fairly well.
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There are no statistics telling us how DDI is doing at this point. Automatically assuming that it's the backbone of 4E's sales is presumptuous at best.
The evidence is admittedly anecdotal but of all my friends that play 4E, very few subscribe anymore. I personally find that telling as they all used to. WotC flubbing all of thier digital endeavors that had been promised for years has garnered much bad blood where DDI is concerned. Plus their level of talent has fallen to included mostly unproven Twitter buddies to work on Dragon. Definitely not what I was paying for in the beginning.
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So really, I don't know if D&D's falling to 2nd place in this ranking is really painting an accurate picture. If D&D Next were to return the focus to print products, I wouldn't be overly surprised if D&D kicked Pathfinder back into the #2 position almost immediately.
Um, Pathfinder has been #1 for the past year, not just this quarter's ranking.
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Black Diamond Games recently had a breakdown of their RPG sales to date for 2012. This is just for one store... yadda, yadda, yadda, but it's an interesting data point.
What's most surprising and impressive to me on that chart is not Pathfinder or D&D, it's Frog God Games' strong showing.
Way to go, Frogs!
Black Diamond Games recently had a breakdown of their RPG sales to date for 2012. This is just for one store... yadda, yadda, yadda, but it's an interesting data point.
Thanks for posting that (and thanks to the store for putting it up). I wish more stores would be willing to provide that kind of information.
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Yes, and D&D's print offerings have been pretty minimal for well over a year.
I will hazard an uneducated guess that it's the Core products (4E: PHB/DMG/MM/Essentials, PF: CRB/BBox) that form a core of sales for both platforms.
Black Diamond's Games findings seem to support that ("The core rulebook is our best selling non CCG product in the store, which is pretty amazing.").
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Owner - Black Diamond Games
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Yes, and D&D's print offerings have been pretty minimal for well over a year.I will hazard an uneducated guess that it's the Core products (4E: PHB/DMG/MM/Essentials, PF: CRB/BBox) that form a core of sales for both platforms.
Black Diamond's Games findings seem to support that ("The core rulebook is our best selling non CCG product in the store, which is pretty amazing.").
About 75% of our Pathfinder sales are the hardcovers, and we carry the full line (over 170 items, last time I checked).