How many times can a PC take leadership?
If they can take it multiple times would they get multiple cohorts?
If they do not get multiple cohorts do the number of followers increase at least?
I have a character who is spreading the word of his great coming and setting up churches across Ustalav. I want to use leadership to have a set of followers and a semi powerful NPC to be setup as the head of each church using leadership to get the leader and the people of the church.
I think feats that don't say that you can take them multiple times are one time only.
Officially, unless specified otherwise, you cannot take multiple instances of a feat.
Un-officially: Ask you GM if your choice of feats meets his approval.
Can anybody help find the rule that states you cannot take a feat more than once, unless the feat states you an take it more than once.
Thanks
Can anybody help find the rule that states you cannot take a feat more than once, unless the feat states you an take it more than once.
Thanks
You could argue that some feats even mention that you can take them multiple times under "special" tells you that. If that was not the case there would be no need to tell us we can take it multiple times.
ahhh found it. You can take a feat as many times as you like. though....
Benefit: What the feat enables the character (“you” in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.
The benefits only stack if the feat says it stacks.
There is nothing stopping your cohorts from taking leadership.
Scary, but true.
It's somewhat limited by the level requirement, though. You have to be 9th level with a Leadership score of 10 (so, net +1) to have a cohort who has a cohort. You have to be 11th level with a score of 16 (net +5) to have your cohort's cohort able to take Leadership, and they have to have the net +1 mod. And so on.
You cap out at 19th level with a leadership score of 24+ (net +5 still), at which point you can have a 17th level cohort, who has a 15th level cohort, who has a 13th level cohort, who has an 11th level cohort, who has a 9th level cohort, who has a 7th level cohort who has a 5th level cohort.
Assuming that everyone had the minimum required leadership score for those cohorts, as a group you'd have 250 first level followers, 24 second level followers, 12 third level followers, 6 fourth, 4 fifth, and 2 sixth.
Yeah, there IS something stopping your cohorts from taking Leadership: just a moment of thought.
If That Guy is the kind of person to be a leader (as evidenced by the Leadership Feat), That Guy is NOT the kind of person who is content to be somebody's henchman.
This is the sort of "loophole" that exists because nobody thought they had to point out something so obvious when they were writing the Feat.
YMMV, your GM might let it slide. In which case, s/he deserves the headaches that follow from daisy-chains of Leadership...
I don't know. It's like a pyramid. You see this all the time in life. Your boss has a boss has a boss. It could happen. I have done this with my villains to figure out what their organizations might look like according to the leadership mechanic. It didn't work very well.
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Yeah, there IS something stopping your cohorts from taking Leadership: just a moment of thought.
If That Guy is the kind of person to be a leader (as evidenced by the Leadership Feat), That Guy is NOT the kind of person who is content to be somebody's henchman.
This is the sort of "loophole" that exists because nobody thought they had to point out something so obvious when they were writing the Feat.
YMMV, your GM might let it slide. In which case, s/he deserves the headaches that follow from daisy-chains of Leadership...
Do you have a boss, does your boss have a boss?
Avon?
Most Multi level marketing.
Most churches
all of these are Leaders with followers who also have Leaders over them.
A Duke may have a baron, a baron may have a king, a king may have an emperor.
Note, I did not say that it would work well, only that the real world and rules allow it.
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Happier: Leadership Cohorts are not Boss-Employee relationships. They are Hero-Sidekick relationships.
Example: Batman-Robin
Robin would not have his own sidekick until he moves out on his own. Then he is no longer Batman's sidekick and he gets his own.
- Gauss
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Happier: Leadership Cohorts are not Boss-Employee relationships. They are Hero-Sidekick relationships.
Example: Batman-Robin
Robin would not have his own sidekick until he moves out on his own. Then he is no longer Batman's sidekick and he gets his own.- Gauss
While that is one way to read it, there are others. Per the definition of cohort, they are a companion or associate on the good side, or an accomplice or abettor on the darker side. I love the example in the dictionary: He got off with probation, but his cohorts got ten years apiece. This definition for me implies that multiple cohorts can exist. I think that it was left vague for the GM to work out depending on their game.
Now, followers cannot have followers (due to level restrictions), but other then the nightmare of keeping track of them all, there is nothing in the rules that disallow a cohort who meets the requirements for the leadership feat from taking the feat.
Personally, I would house rule against it, merely because I generally have enough NPC's to keep track of without a player having a horde somewhere to worry about.
True, my statement was more of an opinion in response to your opinion rather than actually having anything to do with the rules.
By rules: there is nothing to stop a cohort from having a leadership feat. BUT, since Leadership is not PFS available the only time this will come up is in a home campaign at which point the GM should simply say 'no'.
After all, the player does not determine the cohort's abilities, the GM does.
- Gauss
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Having a "boss" and being a "Leader" are not the same thing.
Sure, I have a boss.
Would I decide to follow him around, without a paycheck, and put my life on the line for him? No.
"Leadership" is for those who stand out amongst the crowd ... there are those even that "lead", but are not "Leaders". Even a famous Bard (or Justin Beiber) can ahve throngs of fans that are dedicated to them, and have a "fanatical" attitude toward him (with Epic skill checks in Perform), but, even that's not a cohort.
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
Batman and Robin.
Every DM I have played with has always said that cohorts can't have Leadership, and the Organized Play leagues in which I have played have always had a specific rule about that - or that Leadership wasn't allowed to begin with.
I think that I once saw feats in Dragon Magazine that were designed to be used with Leadership ... I'll see if I can dig it out and mention the issue # for you.
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Per the PRD, benefits from the same feat do not stack unless it explicitly says so:
Benefit: What the feat enables the character (“you” in the feat description) to do. If a character has the same feat more than once, its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise in the description.
This is in the section entitled "Feat Descriptions" of the Feats chapter.
Happier: Leadership Cohorts are not Boss-Employee relationships. They are Hero-Sidekick relationships.
Example: Batman-Robin
Robin would not have his own sidekick until he moves out on his own. Then he is no longer Batman's sidekick and he gets his own.- Gauss
While that is one way to read it, there are others. Per the definition of cohort, they are a companion or associate on the good side, or an accomplice or abettor on the darker side. I love the example in the dictionary: He got off with probation, but his cohorts got ten years apiece. This definition for me implies that multiple cohorts can exist. I think that it was left vague for the GM to work out depending on their game.
Now, followers cannot have followers (due to level restrictions), but other then the nightmare of keeping track of them all, there is nothing in the rules that disallow a cohort who meets the requirements for the leadership feat from taking the feat.
Personally, I would house rule against it, merely because I generally have enough NPC's to keep track of without a player having a horde somewhere to worry about.
...unless the dictionary you're using is published by Paizo, it's definitions are really irrelevant to the discussion.
Mind you, I actually wouldn't have many objections to someone recruiting multiple cohorts... probably as many as they have charisma modifier (minimum one for the Leadership feat).
BUT, those cohorts would still, imo, not be Leadership material, themselves, based on my reasoning above. Followers (which Cohorts are simply a class of) do not tend to be the sort of personalities which inspire other people to follow. Someone used to, and happy with, taking orders isn't generally good at issuing them.
This is all academic: my disapproval is unlikely to alter the game styles of people I'll never meet, after all.