I am serving as the GM for my twin sons, who are eight. This is their first forray into pencil-and-paper RPGs, and they're enjoying it quite a bit. However, they did not know what to expect when we first started. As we have played for the last couple of weeks, they've finally come to understand the rules and nuances, etc.
They both started with fighters--an elf and a dwarf. As they have played, read the Core Rule Book, and encountered other players, they have come to realize that they might prefer playing as a different race or class.
I don't want them to become discouraged. And so starting from scratch at Level 1 is a concern.
My idea was to create new characters for them--if they like--starting at Level 5. In other words, these would be new characters whose advances they did not actually earn.
A local game shop is starting regular games for youngsters. I'm just wondering if, when playing with others, this kind of arrangement would be considered cheating. They did not start the new characters from Level 1. However, they did start ONE character from Level 1. So they've technically put in the time.
What do y'all think?
Starting all over again on a new adventure isn't a bad idea. I think it's a good idea for them to start a character, understand how to structure them from the ground up, and is a key concept for future games (not just with you, think when and if they decide to play with others).
Is it a grueling experience at first? Yes. Is it a necessary experience to understand builds for characters, and how to play other classes, etc.? Of course.
Restarting shouldn't be discouraging or boring; one thing you have to do is make changes, beef some things up, etc. It'll make the change/start not so boring, and it'll make them feel like they accomplished something.
It's ultimately up to you; if there is some decent story or plot that would kill/remove the current characters they have and implement their new characters (at the proper levels), you could pull it off, albeit at a very risky task.
To be safe, I think they should restart, since it isn't all that grueling, and if a player puts in enough time and effort into a character, and/or become bored with their usual gimmick, they would enjoy a new experience.
Another option is to have them all work their way up to a certain level during a final campaign (what level and when is up to you) with those characters where they all die, claim victory as heroes/villains, etc. and then have another chapter in the grand scheme of things where they all create new, diverse characters. If this is an option that you can take, then I would suggest this as an alternative to the one that I mentioned previously.
Hope that helps! :)
Who cares? Unless this is for society play it makes absolutely no difference what level they start at. many campaigns start at level 2 or 3. I've started characters as high as 15 for a retired-wizards-only story arc. The only way this would matter AT ALL is if it conflicts with the starting level of the game at the store, in which case you should go with whatever guidelines are set.
Just gonna throw this in there... have you prompted them to consider maybe multi-classing? That way they don't lose what they have, and can try something out a bit more exotic than just a fighter.
Probably not going to end up with super optimized characters, but who cares? If you feel their resulting characters are a little nerfed, play with 'kids gloves' on and soften up the encounters.
No real ideas about changing race... unless they can get reincarnated.
Just gonna throw this in there... have you prompted them to consider maybe multi-classing? That way they don't lose what they have, and can try something out a bit more exotic than just a fighter.
Probably not going to end up with super optimized characters, but who cares? If you feel their resulting characters are a little nerfed, play with 'kids gloves' on and soften up the encounters.
No real ideas about changing race... unless they can get reincarnated.
Multi-Classing is another great idea, I agree.
It's difficult to pull off extraordinarily, but some fighters are effective with an extra level or two in something else. Sometimes it's not about building the best/most powerful character, it's about playing the way the PC's want to play, and how they go about it is up to them. It's also a good transition for when they need to start new characters, understanding the mechanics of one class, and if they don't like that class they can try another upon the reboot.
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A local game shop is starting regular games for youngsters. I'm just wondering if, when playing with others, this kind of arrangement would be considered cheating. They did not start the new characters from Level 1. However, they did start ONE character from Level 1. So they've technically put in the time.
You should ask if the local game shop is hosting a regular Pathfinder game, or if they are running a Pathfinder Society game. If it is the former, then your sons will probably only be constrained by the wishes of the Game Master.
If it is the latter, then they must start as 1st-level characters, and they won't be able to use the ones they've been playing in your game because that doesn't count.
Pathfinder Society, you may or may not know, is organized play with codified standards designed to provide balance from one player to another, and from one table to another. In this way, when a player brings in a 5th-level fighter, the other players at the table and the GM all have a reasonable expectation of what that character is and is not capable of.
Regular events like these are pretty great for your kids; especially if they have events dedicated to other players in their age group.
As suggested above, it isn't a bad idea to have the kids start over at 1st level every new character, because it gives them more opportunity to figure out how that character works from the ground up.
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A local game shop is starting regular games for youngsters. I'm just wondering if, when playing with others, this kind of arrangement would be considered cheating. They did not start the new characters from Level 1. However, they did start ONE character from Level 1. So they've technically put in the time.You should ask if the local game shop is hosting a regular Pathfinder game, or if they are running a Pathfinder Society game. If it is the former, then your sons will probably only be constrained by the wishes of the Game Master.
If it is the latter, then they must start as 1st-level characters, and they won't be able to use the ones they've been playing in your game because that doesn't count.
Pathfinder Society, you may or may not know, is organized play with codified standards designed to provide balance from one player to another, and from one table to another. In this way, when a player brings in a 5th-level fighter, the other players at the table and the GM all have a reasonable expectation of what that character is and is not capable of.
Regular events like these are pretty great for your kids; especially if they have events dedicated to other players in their age group.
As suggested above, it isn't a bad idea to have the kids start over at 1st level every new character, because it gives them more opportunity to figure out how that character works from the ground up.
I would second this...when I introduces this to my son (now 19) I built his characters and he played the game like a board game or tactical minis game. Which was good to start with but when he started building them he played differently, he had invested time, started to give them character and depth (lol lots of barabrians and semi evil wizards mind you). But here was ownership, pride things like that.....
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A lot of the fun of the game, in my opinion, is watching a character grow. I would rather have run my character right from level 1, because that way I'm more familiar with them, and I better know the abilities I've got. Can you imagine asking one of these players to play a level 5 wizard, having never played a level 1 wizard?
Probably not cheating (depends on the rules for the game they're playing at the game store), but they're missing out on the low level game, which can be a lot of fun.
Assuming not PFS:
There's a totally different feel in starting a character at a higher level and getting to that level from actually playing. Some people prefer one way or the other.
Even if they're getting the gist of the rules pretty quickly, I have experienced players in my group that lose character strength when creating above ~6th level, because they forget some options or they didn't have time to develop what their character can do, so you might be better off just starting low level.
But give them options to retrain. My first D&D character was in 3.5e, I wanted to play a mage. I was explained the differences in wizard and sorcerer, but I misunderstood the explanations and picked wizard. After about two sessions, I realized I had been doing it entirely wrong, and my DM was fine with me swapping to sorcerer - a full convert, at my current experience point. This was huge to me, to be able to rectify a mistake I made without any penalty (aside from wasted time learning wizard), and it definitely had an effect on how I perceive the game now: sometimes, you just need to retcon stuff, because you lose too much because of a silly error.
I would approach the GM for the shop's game and look into if he will be the forgiving type.
Hardly cheating.
In fact it's common practice. Not ever adventure starts at level one. There are plenty of modules out there that start at all variousl levels... I've started characters at level 3, 7 and 12 before.
As for continuing the same adventure.... what would have happened if they had died? Most people bring in new characters the same level as the one that died.. Sounds like the same thing here but without the painful death thing ;)
Again, this is for friendly games... there are some 'official PFS' rules that are more strict... And I don't know what they are, but Techniquely if they start 'league play' they would have had to start over at 1 anyway ;)
A lot of the fun of the game, in my opinion, is watching a character grow. I would rather have run my character right from level 1, because that way I'm more familiar with them, and I better know the abilities I've got. Can you imagine asking one of these players to play a level 5 wizard, having never played a level 1 wizard?
Probably not cheating (depends on the rules for the game they're playing at the game store), but they're missing out on the low level game, which can be a lot of fun.
I don't disagree from an experienced gamer standpoint but I can see it being rather annoying when teeaching a young new gamer and they can get 1 shotted by the baddies frequently. Starting them out at a higher level while they get the rules down could help alot in the long run. I would hope that eventually they would *want* to start over from 1st level. and thats when ya got 'em hook line and sinker :)
-S
it's not cheating. At a different table (=gaming store) you get told what level you start with, and normally noone cares if you played them from lvl 1 on.
It's however important that beginners start at least one from lvl 1, and progress slow enough to learn the game a natural pace.
Well usually replacement characters don't start at 1. A level 1 character is hopelessly useless in a group with level 10 characters, or level 5 too, and more likely to die in a stray AOE than anything else. Usually replacement chars either start at the same level of the group, the level of the previous character of the player, or maybe 1 level lower.
Some GMs have problem allowing a PC to make a new character when the old one is still alive. But why really? All it does is force someone to play a character they no longer enjoy, and then they start taking stupid risks so they finally die and can get the character they want.
Cheating in what sense?