|
Is anyone else finding the Sahuagin arc a tad too similar to the Grindylow arc in the first book? My party is still at Rickety's but as I look at how this module will play out I am concerned it will be a massive experience of deja vu.
1) raiding parties of aquatic humanoids attempt to kidnap members of the crew.
2) you track them to a dangerous jungle island complete with vines trying to choke you.
3) you enter sea caves and fight such never-before-seen characters as
4) a creepy matron/queen
5) a mutant bruiser king
I think I will have to make some modifications just so my players don't get bored.
I'm beginning to hatch a plot that involves tying Cyrus Wolfe and Tevenida Aiger and Kerdak Bonefist and Norgober together. A mystery for the player's to unravel that takes them through the rest of the AP. More on that soon.
I have to agree, the similarity between the two "dungeons" at the ends of Book 1 and Book 2 bothered me when I got my PDFs. I'm not sure which one I will change, as I like some elements of both. However, the general plot of Book 1 seems to brook less interference with altering the storyline than Book 2. To be honest, the dungeon in Book 2 is just there as a loot, ie. plunder source, whereas Book 1 has other motivations. Gotta think on this quickly, my group is almost ready to face the Man's Promise.
Gotta think on this quickly, my group is almost ready to face the Man's Promise.
My group isn't that far along, but I can see the problem.
I'd play Book 1 as is, and change Book 2 as needed.Like DM, I'm interested in seeing what ideas sabedoria (or anyone else) comes up with. The Trident is definitely a bit OTT - earlier posts have suggested limiting the number of times per day it can be used, which might help.
Maybe there is a way to connect the two groups to make it more of a recurring villain. I'm planning to substantially change the way the second adventure works because I can't imagine my group biting on the hooks that are there. So maybe the grindylows can somehow lead into a conflict with the sahuagin.
|
Maybe there is a way to connect the two groups to make it more of a recurring villain. I'm planning to substantially change the way the second adventure works because I can't imagine my group biting on the hooks that are there. So maybe the grindylows can somehow lead into a conflict with the sahuagin.
You can do what I'm going to do:
Add Dead Man's Quest to the island, have the ghost of Old Captain Flint haunting the island, and add a second ship-wreck. Captain Flint can be the husband of Lady Smythee (just change the name of one or the other) and add a basement Shrine to Besmara. I'll probably do a full conversion later.
|
I'm going to be massively trimming back the Grindylow dungeon and emphasizing the island more, so my players might not have a problem with the Sahuagin base being a repeat.
I would like to do something with the enemies to make them a little more unique, though.
I just started S&S this week, though, so I've got some time to think about it. :)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm going to be massively trimming back the Grindylow dungeon and emphasizing the island more, so my players might not have a problem with the Sahuagin base being a repeat.
I would like to do something with the enemies to make them a little more unique, though.
I just started S&S this week, though, so I've got some time to think about it. :)
If you're trimming the Grindylow dungeon, then perhaps you might want to borrow stuff from Serpent's Skull: Souls of Smuggler's Shiv. Focus more on Ghouls and cannibals. There's even a Cheliax angle that you can use to play up the the Chelish threat to the Shackles a little.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have made the isle more of a follow-the-dots riddle, with compass dials they have to re-measure against a compass rose on Locke's map, to find the "next" clue, trekking over a jungle encrusted piece of volcanic wilderness... snakes, spiders, centipedes, apes hurling treefruits, swarms of mosquitos, swampy hollows.
All of it leading towards a set of caves in a breaker-washed cliff, partially submerging. Scattered the area with signs of a pirates mutinee going wrong... added a couple of haunts (There was much fun with a pegleg, trying to violently attach itself to the characters) and ghosts trying to fulfill their search for the treasure, some haunting the group and steadily suggesting plausible ideas and deadly, misleading lies. Some attempting to make characters "re-murder" their old comrades. Subtheme "treachery among pirates"
Simply changed the Sahuagin lair from underwater into a damp, sodden, half floodded sloshing dungeon full of (more) undead, algae covered walls, barnacled rotten doors and much less fishy-types,
whole place occassionally filled by the rising tide, leaving behind puddles of seawater and flooded lower areas. Water soaked zombies with fire resistance, skeletons covered in poisonous jellyfish hurling themselves at the party, underwater pits filled with swarms of crabs. Giant conch shell with an oversized hermit crab
DM's Cheliax angle could have worked, too, especially with the treachery or perhaps some Pathfinder lodge stuff.
or alternatively having the characters trek across an island filled with Dinosaurs ( channeling King Kong by Peter Jackson here, especially the fanttastic artbook) to reach a measuring marker to get their bearing for the map.
Really it slightly bothred me, that the low-level adventures depended so much on potions/scrolls of water breathing etc. when the players hardly have access to the spell, then they get handed a "helm of underwater action"... Voila, hardly anything after the chase in AP-3 that in AP-4 and AP-5 actually takes place underwater anymore. Because obviously now the players have access to water breathing so "it's no challenge" anymore, it seems
Same as with sailing actions (you know, piracy). Seems to die out, after the Regatta.
What this AP might really need are some worthy and MEMORABLE seaborne targets to rob and plunder... vast galleons, deadly ghost ships, treasure fleets or exotic drifting islands like dragonturtles or the huge-fish-whose-name-escapes-me... Dandan ? You know... fantastic meets piracy. Something to brag about having plundered, not "nameless merchant #14", giving you three points of plunder.
Or raiding a prison ship from Chelia or Rahadoum to free captured pirates. Having a run-in or just a distant sighting of Besmara's unholy ship...
If there is interest, I might put up some more or less crazy ideas.
|
|
The only other AP I've run is Curse of the Crimson Throne, which I thought was superb throughout. I'm still very happy with this AP overall in comparison with almost any other published adventures I've seen, but it is definitely in need of more tweaking that CoCT was. More fantastic indeed, Vikingson bring your ideas for certain.
For this island I'm liking the dinosaur chase. It will lead to a trap and haunt filled series of caves set up by Cyrus Wolfe to protect his treasure. Sort of King Kong leads to Goonies.
|
|
Instead of making the piracy victims generic, I plan to tweak them to give some interest for the characters and their players. For example:
The mysterious stranger in my S&S is styling herself a cowboy pirate, after a whirlwind Shackles/Alkenstar outlaw marriage. When a ship they capture turns out to have a hold full of livestock en route to Thuvia, she gets to be pirate and rustler at the same time.
As for the Grindylow -> Sahaugin issue, I was worried too, though for the most part, their motivations are different. Both the sea monsters and the PCs for routing them. In the first, they need all the crew they can get to escape from Bonewrack Island; in the second, they're looking for treasure and exterminating a whole indigenous population who dared strike at their home base in retaliation for their accidentally killing their prince.
|
|
If you're trimming the Grindylow dungeon, then perhaps you might want to borrow stuff from Serpent's Skull: Souls of Smuggler's Shiv. Focus more on Ghouls and cannibals. There's even a Cheliax angle that you can use to play up the the Chelish threat to the Shackles a little.I'm going to be massively trimming back the Grindylow dungeon and emphasizing the island more, so my players might not have a problem with the Sahuagin base being a repeat.
I would like to do something with the enemies to make them a little more unique, though.
I just started S&S this week, though, so I've got some time to think about it. :)
That's a good idea, but I think I wanna save Souls for Smuggler's Shiv so that I can play it completely someday. :)
But it's a good idea to flesh out the island. I'm going to make Aaron Ivy a living NPC rather than a ghoul. He'll be a cross between Tom Hanks from Castaway and a Minecraft guy, and pretty crazy.
He'll have a friend named Wilson...
Lots of good ideas here. Even though this is the first pre-written campaign I've run in ages, I sometimes forget that I can just change or ditch anything that I don't like.
Dinosaurs are a must, though I'll have to look the whole path over and make sure that the authors aren't saving them for later. It'd be a shame to play that card too early and lessen the effect later on.
There are some dinosaurs on the Isle of Empty Eyes (module 4), but they have already been tamed/corralled by the natives. :(
There are some dinosaurs on the Isle of Empty Eyes (module 4), but they have already been tamed/corralled by the natives. :(
True, but that's easy to tweak.
Alternately, one certainly could introduce a side quest to a dinosaur-infested island in almost any of the modules, much as pirating random passing merchant ships is already an option.
|
|
I think maybe, in the spirit of Minecraft, I'll make Aaron Ivy's hut surrounded by elaborate traps. :)
At this point, I think I'm going to cut the underwater cove completely. The Grindylows will be transformed into goblins, except for the Whale and the Queen. They'll be down in a deep, dark hole, and the PCs will arrive just in time to see the goblins drop the prisoners down into the hole. Kinda using the old cannibals-with-prisoners-in-a-pot trope.
There are some dinosaurs on the Isle of Empty Eyes (module 4), but they have already been tamed/corralled by the natives. :(True, but that's easy to tweak.
** spoiler omitted **
Alternately, one certainly could introduce a side quest to a dinosaur-infested island in almost any of the modules, much as pirating random passing merchant ships is already an option.
I know my players reasonably well and I'm patiently waiting for the moment they try to put a dinosaur on a boat. :D
I know my players reasonably well and I'm patiently waiting for the moment they try to put a dinosaur on a boat. :DThere are some dinosaurs on the Isle of Empty Eyes (module 4), but they have already been tamed/corralled by the natives. :(True, but that's easy to tweak.
** spoiler omitted **
Alternately, one certainly could introduce a side quest to a dinosaur-infested island in almost any of the modules, much as pirating random passing merchant ships is already an option.
LOL!!
One of my players (currently the cook's mate) built a Saurian Shaman character specifically so he could summon aquatic dinosaurs. Can't wait to see how that's going to work out, but I suspect by the time he gets leveled up to the point he can do it they may need more firepower than that.... ;D