Armor Bonus and Enhancement bonus Question.

[Destis]

This whole question may be solved if this first idea is wrong, however, it has come to my attention that you may be able to enchant normal clothing with an enhancement bonus to armor. I haven't found anything saying you can't, but that's not to say that you can. In the event that you can, would the magical Enhancement Bonus on your, let's say +3 doublet, stack with a +3 Armor Bonus from your Bracers of armor. Bracers of armor clearly state that "They surround the wearer with An invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor." The rules for enhancing magic armor state "In general, magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than non-magical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses). All magic armor is also masterwork armor, reducing armor check penalties by 1." It goes on to state that "A suit of armor or a shield may be made of an unusual material." and cotton or linen seems a little unusual for armor to me. Granted that may be stretching the rules a bit far. Either way, it clearly states that an enhancement bonus to armor class stacks with a standard armor bonus and doesn't dictate a restriction on the source of either bonus. If it is agreed that Bracers of Armor would stack with an enhancement bonus from another source, but, you cannot magically enhance your clothing in such a way, the next best solution for a caster would be the armored kilt, as it has no spell failure and a high max dexterity. Any input or prior rulings on this is greatly appreciated. I'm sure there are more arguments I could make for and against this, but to me it seems as far as this goes, it is two separate types of bonuses that do stack. Thanks so much for your time.

[wraithstrike]

If you try to enhance anything that is an armor item in the game you would need GM Fiat to do so since he would have to assign ASF, ACP, and a price to the item.

I would use the kilt since it is in the book.

[hustonj]

Bracers of Armor provide an Armor Bonus.

Armor (whether normal clothing enchanted as armor or actual armor) also provides an armor bonus. Enhancements on said armor increase the size of that armor bonus (allowing normal clothing to provide a non-zero bonus).

Armor bonuses do not stack.

The problem with your "logic" is that you are trying to justify transfering the benefit of an enhancement bonus from the enchanted item to a different item. The magic system just doesn't work that way.

I think there are some Natural Armor bonus items (Amulet of Natural Armor comes to mind, but I'm not looking it up to verify) that specifically provide an enhancement to any already existing Natural Armor rating, but these items specifically call out this exceptional behavior.

[Volkspanzer]

We may want to get this moved over to the Rules forum...

In any case, I've done some poking around on the PRD on bonus types, armor class, and magic armor.

On the subject of armor class, it's pretty common knowledge that the most oft-seen forms of bonuses to AC are:

Armor Bonus
Shield Bonus
Dexterity Bonus
Natural Armor Bonus
Dodge Bonus
Deflection Bonus

Whenever these are referred to in mechanics, each bonus provides a value to the total AC.

However, enhancement bonuses provide a bonus to a bonus (you with me?)! By what other logic could enhancement bonuses from different sources stack upon one another in respect to total AC? Let's look at a quote from the PRD:

PRD wrote:

In general, magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than nonmagical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses). All magic armor is also masterwork armor, reducing armor check penalties by 1.

If you were to read this quote as I assume was intended, an enhancement bonus to magical armor increases the total Armor Bonus PROVIDED BY THAT ARMOR, and is then applied to the total AC. Likewise, an enhancement bonus to a magical shield increases the total Shield Bonus PROVIDED BY THAT SHIELD, and is then applied to the total AC.

This doesn't stop with a magical armor and shield, mind you. For example, an Amulet of Natural Armor provides an enhancement bonus to your current Natural Armor Bonus. Again, it's enhancing the total Natural Armor bonus granted to your total AC.

At this point, you must be wondering where I'm going with this. Hold on, I'm almost there.

You see, the idea to take a piece of clothing (doublet in this case) and give it an enhancement bonus to its Armor Bonus is in effect classifying the doublet as magical armor. Hence, if you were to put on a Bracers of Armor in addition to the doublet, you'd have two separate sources trying to provide an Armor Bonus, and only the highest of the two would provide its bonus to AC. This applies to your idea of wearing an armored kilt and a bracers of armor, as an armored kilt is still light armor on its own, and would effectively be in conflict with the bracers as to which one will provide the armor bonus for your character.

Simply put, this is a waste of good gold and crafting, not to mention you'd have to get the GM to designate your new clothing as light, medium, or heavy armor. Now, that's a silly concept -- a magical armor that is neither light, medium, or heavy. You'd NEVER be proficient in it, or ever know what AC penalty check or max dex bonus it has!

Now, to those fellows who may be thinking,"Wait! What if I add an enhancement bonus to the Armor Bonus of my Bracers of Armor? I'll be rocking a +1 Bracers of Armor +1!!", I'd have to say no on several accounts.

Bracers of Armor are a Wondrous Item, and cannot be subject to the enhancement bonuses that are provided to a magical armor or magical shield. If you were to throw my sagacious council to the wind, and went ahead with your silly idea, you'd have to classify it as a magical armor or magical shield. At this point, you'd be following the same logic as your doublet, making with the barrister garbage, making your GM feel all sorts of uncomfortable, asking that your new 'armor' or 'shield' have no armor check penalty, an infinite max dex bonus, and no arcane spell failure, while not even affecting your Monk's class features (aka Wisdom Bonus to AC, and extra AC with continued levelling).

I know you were thinking it. Shame on you! You dirty, dirty boy.

....... Does this answer your questions and concerns?

[Destis]

Well this certainly puts a damper on some plans, but it does open the door to others. Either way, thanks much for all the help!

[LazarX]

The only way to put an armor bonus on normal clothing is Magical Vestment. Mage Armour however gives a very similar effect.

Either one of these would still be armor bonuses and neither would stack with either each other or any other source providing an armor bonus.

[Liz Courts]

Moved thread.