A few fairly technical Hex Strike questions.

[redcapscorner]

Hex Strike is an interesting feat from Ultimate Combat, but I found myself a little fuzzy on its possibilities upon reading. I have the following questions about the feat:

1) It's not possible to use a swift action on an opponent's turn. Does that mean when delivering unarmed strikes as attacks of opportunity, this feat doesn't grant its benefit? Or is it reasonable to assume that you could then expend the swift action at the beginning of your turn to hex the target?

2) Presumably the use of an unarmed strike to deliver a combat maneuver (such as disarm or trip) should still be compatible with this feat, correct?

3) The feat states that you "deliver the effects of the chosen hex," which is a fairly stark contrast in wording to "cast the hex" or "use the hex." There's a reading of that wording that implies that they get no save against the effect. The effects are simply delivered, seemingly outside of the usual way (which would include a save). This is likely not the correct interpretation, but I wondered if anyone had thoughts about it.

4) And finally, my playgroup has always used a rule (which may or may not be a house rule) that allows you to trade any action for a lesser action as a logical extension of the ability to trade your standard action for a move action. This allows you to trade a standard or move action for a swift action (allowing you a potential three swift actions per turn as long as you're not doing anything else). Regardless of whether or not that's a house rule, let's assume it's somehow possible to take two swift actions in a turn. If you take the Hex Strike feat twice, choose two different hexes, and then make an unarmed strike, am I reading it correctly that each of the two feats will trigger upon success of your attack, allowing you to deliver the effects of both hexes with the expenditure of one swift action per hex (so, two swift actions in this example)? So, if your BAB is crappy (which it is because you're a witch) and it isn't worth making a full attack, but you began your turn next to an opponent, given the possible house rule listed above, could you punch the opponent and then use two swift actions to activate two hexes? Also, can anyone confirm whether or not the action trade-down is a real rule, and if so, can anyone cite where I could find it?

Thanks, guys!

[Christopher Van Horn]

redcapscorner wrote:

Hex Strike is an interesting feat from Ultimate Combat, but I found myself a little fuzzy on its possibilities upon reading. I have the following questions about the feat: *

Answers:

1) Unfortunately swift actions are only on your turn and the hex would have to be applied with the strike, not when you next got the chance to do so.

2) No, these maneuvers are not attacks and do not replace the attack actin, they are separate actions. I could see it working if you were using the grapple action to deliver unarmed damage however (sleeper hold ftw)

3) The effect of the hex generates the saving throw, I am actually unsure on this one however but I would tend to believe that the save would still happen, as I believe this is supposed to work very similar to arcane strike and the magus spellstrike ability; although it takes an action to do and the magus ability does not.

4) No, actions are no longer downgradable. You have to take the type of action available, or no type at all. I believe this was actually in the rules back in 3.0/3.5 but was removed from pathfinder with a few specific exceptions (i.e. the ability to take a move action to move as a standard action)

[AvalonXQ]

The action trade down is not a rule in Pathfinder and was not a rule in 3rd Edition. Both are very specific in only allowing one swift action per turn, period.

Allowing more than one swift action per turn breaks some stuff, so be careful with that house rule.

[Grick]

Christopher Van Horn wrote:

2) No, these maneuvers are not attacks and do not replace the attack actin, they are separate actions.

Combat Maneuvers are attacks.

Disarm and Trip can both be made in place of a melee attack.

You can use an unarmed strike to make a combat maneuver. (FAQ: "you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike")

Hex Strike: "If you make a successful unarmed strike against an opponent, in addition to dealing your unarmed strike damage, you can use a swift action to deliver the effects of the chosen hex to that opponent."

So the question is: By replacing your melee attack with a trip, using an unarmed strike to make the trip attempt, does that count as a successful unarmed strike against the opponent?

I think the intent is that you're actually punching the guy. I think an unarmed trip shouldn't discharge a held touch spell, or deliver a hex strike. But as to the actual RAW, I'm not sure. I'm inclined to think that since you're replacing the attack with something else, even though you apply attack bonuses to unarmed strike to the CM, it's still a CM and not an actual unarmed strike.