Elven Archer (Kobold Quarterly) any good?

[Constatine]

Curious what the communities thoughts are on the elven archer. It seems an like an awesome class alternative to an archer ranger. Mostly comparing to a Ranger.

1) I get fighter feats (improved weapon foc, weapon spec, greater weapon spec). 7 total bonus feats (yum), ends up being 2 more than a rangers style feats.

2) I still get a favored enemy and ranger spells. I feel overall thats enough since you get spells to make things into your favored enemies.

3) I get a little less than 1/2 a rogues sneak attack damage scaling (good enough? not a main source of damage for archers, just nice for alphas or with invisibility later). However once I hit 16th I can go into melee and sneak attack with my bow by flanking. Thats free 4d6 damage at that point.

4) I get enchant arrows (+4) and can ignore the base +1 on arrows. That Means I can prep fire or ice or whatever elemental or alignment damage is needed on my arrows and keep my bow for raw magic bonuses and 'speed'.

5) I get close combat shots and threatening, ala the zen archer

6) I get a super alpha strike ability at 13th (spend a round aiming from hiding, next round i hit on a 1)

Still get Trap and Wild Empathy, Swift Tracker. I gain light foot. I keep the ranger skill list and 6 + Int a level.

So...what do I loose?

Animal Companion (enchant arrows/fighter feats I feel make this a non issue, although fighting low ac monsters an animal companion might give more DPR for the group)
Additional Favored Enemies (Meh. Spells kinda make this a so so later on)
Favored Terrains (nice to have)
Evasion/Improved Evasion (the former i believe can still be gotten via a ring, although that does eat up a ring slot)
Quarry/Improved Quarry (Take Aim fufills a similar role and I feel is better for the alpha)
Capstone (Elven Archers dont have one)
Medium Armor Prof (pointless. Armor Master Trait + Mithral Breast Plate, dont even need medium armor prof).

d10 vs d8 health (I'm an archer..non issue).
+4 bonus to preferred/favored enemy (+6 vs +10

So I feel within combat the Elven Archer is simply the better Archer (which probably makes sense given the focus of the class!). A fighter
has weapon training over the Elven Archer, but thats more or less it. I feel between the spells, precision, preferred target and melee archery the Elven Archer is just better at the role of high dex damage dealing with a bow.

Thoughts?

[Crysknife]

I've not read the class, but from your description it seems like a very strong archer.
Main problem is that with d8 and a racial penalty in CON. Also, +10 against favored enemy is very, very strong.
I think this could be a solid class, maybe a bit better than standard ranger but by a lot.

[Grizzly the Archer]

I've seen the even archer that you are talking about. It seems nice at first, but there are some issues I really don't like.

Comparing this class to a ranger is not a bad way to look at it. It is also a bit arcane archer mixed in. The issues arise from it trying too hard in fitting in all of the archer type abilities or nuances to make it effective.

It loses,out on favored terrain which is a big hit. The elven archer also loses out on the extra HP, which mattersmtomhim, becuause the precision damage is only going to be applied while in close combat. You might be able to flank with your now, but that's only at 10', not 5' or even 15'. The Snap shot feat line provides a full 15' threaten area, the elven archer oly at 10'. That's very limiting in your positioning abilities.

They gain a SA, that's somewhat not horrible, but still bad, for the low damage, for just getting into melee range. Archers are either played up close in the back or both. However, the dev. For this class made the elven archer more suited for long ranged, but gave it more abilities for close range.

The enchant ability in my mind is only good at lower levels. It might be awesome to make an arrow a keen ice arrow, but that's about it. All the other abilities past merciful, keen, energy types, seeking, distance arent that usage or great. Bows typically at mid levels are already a +2 or +3 with seeking on it, waiting to get holy and distance, and perhaps merciful on it as well. By those levels the only benefit wold be to make our arrows the ability you don't have already.

In all it is a great archer heavy class, but I would still make an improvement or two. However, it is powerful, and don't forget to utilize the instant enemy spell, for your favored enemy bonus.

[Constatine]

So while i know there is a threat line thats better, the 5 foot difference is not terrible, and a d8 vs a d10 isnt terrible either (its roughly 1 hp per level, or 'one' hit at medium levels).

What I see vs the ranger is this

Loosing favored terrains: Stinks, but its not the end of the world. Favored terrains are generally out of combat things (with some in combat help if you stealth) and being a 6+Int skill monkey anyways, I don't forsee many failed checks.

Loosing +4 bonus to Favored Enemies and additional Favored Enemies (Archers cap at +6 vs +10). Painful in the start with not having lots of enemy choices, but once you get instant enemy thats somewhat moot. Loosing +4 to hit and damage vs your favored target seems bad at first.

Loosing Quarry: Not the worst given Take Aim seems better for an Alpha Round, potentially worse vs a big bad guy thats going to last 10-15 rounds.

Loosing Hide in Plain Sight: A nuisance for sure, although Rangers in combat dont have a huge use for this generally, and Archers have a work around with auto threat for sneak attack.

Evasion Line: Stinks, need to use a ring to get it back

Companion: Debatable, they are useful, but require a good amount of focus, spells and money to keep relevant in mid level or high level games. Their damage out put means less and less.

Now I keep spell casting, the ranger good saves,

I gain:

Greater Weapon Focus
Weapon Spec
Greater Weapon Specialization
(optional)
Penetrating/Greater Penetrating (Between this and the bullseye feat, damage reduction means nothing to me)
Disruptive
Other Fighter Feats(Critical Mastery maybe, although i dont like crit feats on a x3 crit range)

I gain 4d6 sneak attack damage

I gain +4 enchant to arrows (it does not specify the arrows have to be mundane, so i can improve any arrows I have. That means I can give my arrows fiery, cold, etc modifiers (cheap 1 and 2 point modifiers) and i do not need to spend an enchant to give it a default +1. This means that my arrows are getting all the qualities I lack, as well as alignment bonuses I may need for the day. This frees up my bow to be a pure + to hit + to damage bow, or speed when I can affored that.

So by comparison

fighter: +6 to hit and +8 to damage vs everything
ranger: +11 to hit and 10 damage vs favored enemies. +2 hit/damage if quarry (single target, standard action)
Archer: +2 to hit and +32 to damage (4d6 sneak attack(14 average))(holy/axiomatic=14 average damage)) vs everything
Archer: +8 to hit and +38 to damage (vs favored enemies)

The ideal 'accuracy' of the archer falls behind a ranger vs a favored enemy thats also quarried, but the damage remains steadily ahead. Since archers really have no difficult in hitting and stacking accuracy bonuses (which is why we deadly aim so easily) the differences in accuracy seem moot to a point. If a archer is not sneak attacking, lower their damage by 14 on average (which drops them down to somewhere between the fighter and ranger on average). If they are getting both off though, they are steadily ahead.

The enchant arrows is actually pretty boss, as it really frees up your bow selection since you can get 2 alignment types on your arrows and you can go for a +X Speed bow far quicker without having to throw alignments on it.

[Cheapy]

I recall that the class was playtested for 3 years.

[Constatine]

Just read the snap shot line. Its nice, but its more feats. That said without close combat shot from the Archer, you would still invoke AoOs using the snap shot line until you get the greater version for 15 foor threat. That means level 9 and two feats. Elven Archer can do this at level 10 for 1 feat (Snap Shot + Close Combat Shot) at a bit more risk, then retrain out of snap shot at 16th.

It is also I feel worth noting that a ranger gets very little out of being at close range. Sadly I only thing a rogue has a compelling reason to go into melee with a bow and it takes them longer simply due to low BaB.

Its not a perfect class, but I feel its a better archer overall then the ranger or fighter. Paladins work differently inherently so hard to compare.