So i have a PC who likes to use various forms or torture and coertion to get information even when its not particularly necessary.
I want to capture and torture the PC, but NOT the player...
I want the player to feel a certain sense of helplessness and sorrow for their character but Im not going to use things like rape or permanent maiming.
looking for advice...
I have considered the basic damage forms of torture (just say your doing things that are generally painful and disgusting. and leave the player at low HPs... possibly run intimidate checks to FORCE the player to give up information in the same way a PC would be forced to.
I have also considered using things like curses but those can ultimately be just removed although if done in the wrong place the PC has to suffer from it for a while.
lastly i have considered diseases and poisons with antidoes as rewards.
so you give the PC several doses of a poison (or infect them with a disease) and over the course of the poison ask questions with anti-venom readily available to delay or counter the poison/disease if the player gives an answer... the Player can use sense motif and bluff to try and lie giving an in correct response but still try to get the reward of antitoxin as the enemy wants to keep them alive for future information... but if the player fails the attempts or refuses untill death ... its kind of their fault.
what are your oppinions or suggestions on the matter?
This all depends on how well the player role-plays. Most gamers, in my experience, tend to ignore the pain aspect of hp loss with their own characters, unless they can ham it up in their own favor.
So what you do is establish an NPC that the player likes, such as a mentor or love interest. Then, when you spring your trap, the PC gets knocked out and wakes up tied up across from their favored NPC. The villain then threatens to maim/kill the NPC if the PC doesn't answer his questions.
Are you capturing and questioning the entire party? Is it relevant and important to the story?
If the answer to either is "No", then my only suggestion is: Do NOT do this.
If it is "Yes", then maybe the following:
1. Diplomacy (to dance around the question), Bluff (to give a false answer), or Intimidate (to convince the questioner that you will never answer)
2. Above average, but reasonable Fort Save to endure the pain of the torment or Will Save to ignore it.
3. Set scaling DC's for the interrogation social skill checks. Low for early, inconsequential questions, going higher (but reachable) for the most important ones. Add +5 to the DC if the PC fails his fort of will save.
This should give most PC's a chance to resist the interrogation. You'll have to decide the results/punishments of failure.
The Heal skill has rules for being used as a torture skill, could get some ideas from there.
The relative attachment of a player to a character makes the concept of torturing a PC difficult if not pointless. Even a good role-player will be challenged to really role-play the difference between full HP, zero HP, and negative HP but conscious. I mean the player can ALWAYS roll up a new character. The old character and real life don't have that alternative.
The OP implies that you want to teach the player about the consequences of torture, so you want them to take some of their own medicine. Instead of that, I would encourage you to develop plot around the consequences of torture.
Some victims may go to extraordinary lengths to revenge torture. There's a scene in Pulp Fiction when Marcellus Wallace reverses the role of torturer that could prove inspiring for plot development.
cheers
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In Kobold Quarterly #11 there is a nice article of this subject. It has three tables Mild, Moderate, and Severe. Basically the DM decides on the level of torture to be applied, and and gives the appropriate chart to the player and then the role playing begins with the player rolling the results of the applied torture.
I see what you are trying to do but I’m not convinced that this is the best way to illustrate a point. Illustrating that torture is wrong by torturing just seems odd.
I’d use shame and embarrassment.
You could set up a scenario where the player thinks the NPC has information. So the players gets a lead from a source that a certain NPC has information he needs. The player does what he normally does and tortures the NPC. The NPC might even confess to something he did not do just to end the torture. He truly has no idea.
It turns out the source had a bone to pick with the NPC and gave him bad info knowing that the player is just the kind of dirt bag who would torture. Perhaps later down the road the NPC could be or could be related to a person of power.
Also make sure to lump in all the players as associates to the torturer. They ALL get a bad rap. Once the other players start getting the rap they will change his behavior. You will not have to do a thing.
-MD
have the ghost of a tortured victim pop up at certain moments, treat it like a curse.
"Hi there city guard"
*ghost appears* "heee tortuuuured meeeee"
|
Issue 11 of Kobold Quarterly (Fall 2009) had an article called "Torture and Fear on the Tabletop" which was really good, and pretty much exactly the rules you're looking for.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Torture a PC?
Start with Dell components.
Load Windows ME on it.
Turn it on.
....I have been captured as a PC several times...typically it is a pain, but the DM falls all over themselves to make it clear your PC isn't really in danger (ie-presents the next plot element; the prison break)
Once a DM made it personal - and very memorable (this was in the 80's in college)
Horror campaign with us as ourselves in modern day college at that time, with what we had. We tangle with a local medical clinic next door (crazy thing is there really was one next door we never had noticed, not open to the general public). We end up breaking in (seemed like a good idea at the time) and get in a struggle, only to be anesthetized (oops - hadn't thought of that). Wake up all strapped to gurneys, in our skivvies. Paralyzed due to some drug, but we can hear and see (there is a mirror above us on the ceiling allowing us to see everything clearly). The "Doctor" takes fluid and tissue samples (the descriptions starting out bland, getting more personal as they go on). Then injects some strange glowing fluid into our genitals (and we pass out in extreme pain). We wake up as zombies, basically (no will, must follow orders). Eventually we are rescued and given treatment, but the combination of utter helplessness as we are forced to do things we normally would not do combined with the very clinical descriptions of routine medical procedures (right up until the last) was an ordeal I still vividly remember to this day. After our first failed rolls vs. the anethestic gas, we got no rolls and no choices - the narrative lasted maybe 5 minutes followed by a half hour or so with us as zombies (basically establishing plot elements; ie- we were now wanted by the police)
Our characters eventually caught up with and got even with the "good" Doctor, but he still got off too easy in my opinion....and we are still on the run (as far as I know), never having the chance to clear our names (many innocents died, but we saved the world)
not specifically torture, but....
This simply doesn't work in Pathfinder - you just can't compel PCs with torture (or diplomacy) unless they are willing to "go along" roleplaywise.
I *do* think there might be a certain value in reputation - the PC, a known torturer, has penalties to leadership and diplomacy, and might be singled out by enemies for assassination, focused attacks in combat, and so on.
Aside from that, there are the obvious alignment consequences (both for the PC and for his associates who allow such behavior).
There's only ONE way to strike genuine fear into a player (fear for his PC's well-being), and that is equipment destruction; it sounds like you don't want to go *that* far, though!
Every NPC tortured by the character will inevitably divulge the experience to someone else. Enough torture occurs and even those that see the PC as a Hero will start to avoid dealing with the PC and then by extension his companions. After awhile, the Heroes will become loathed, if not reviled, where they will get shunned from everyday folk. This could even force the ruler of the land to take an interest and do something about such reviled individuals.
|
Went hunting through my issues of Kobold Quarterly upon reading your post. In issue 11 they have an article about torture and fear the only difference is that their methods may also effect your player, in addition to his character.
They have three charts, ranked mild(d10) moderate(d12) and severe(d20) torture, each with a variety of effects from ability damage, to ability drain, nonlethal damage blinding/deafness, and perminant maimings. What makes this torture truley cruel is during the RP if the player refuses to talk behind the screen you as the DM decide how extreme the torture will be, based on the above charts, and place said chart before the player and have them roll the appropriate dice.
The player's/character's response should be a moment of hesitation as they and the other players realize what is about to happen and that they are choosing to take on some horrible fate if they don't talk.
[Insert evil DM smile here}
Hope that helped, if you want the charts or anything just let me know.
good information guy.
esepecially pointing to me to read further into heal check.
kobold is always good for information so i will look into that.
basically I like to add two things to my games...
1) actions have consequences
2) if you can do it so can the NPCs
at this point I have simply dipped the players alignment which does nothing but has prompted an NPC to refuse healing that PC (the NPC has constant detect evil and refuses to heal any one that pings as evil). it is now also effecting other players alignments for allowing him to do it by "turning their heads" or leaving the room.
the idea being an evil person enjoys or accepts torture, a neutral one would let it happen but not participate and a good one would actively attempt to stop it from happening.
if this does not prompt the PCs to police their group member I MAY allow a situation in which the PC is tortured (such as if they were to separate for some reason) but i am trying to strike a balance... the player is a fairly decent role player and may be effected... but then again the player may decide his character deserved it and is willing to accept such penalties in the future in the name of gaining information now.
I would spread informan about the torture but the PC that does it basically tortures the NPCs to death.
he actually takes pleasure in the idea that with his heal check he can prolong tortur for extended periods of time.
It kind of bothers me IRL a bit. I mean... the player is not a bad guy... not ACRTUALLY evil, he wouldn't do this kind of thing in real life... but to him its just a plot point that makes thing easier.. he does not actually realize what torture is.