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Opinions and best practices help would be greatly appreciated.(I'm newer at PFS so trying to get my bearings)
Here's what i see:Amount of spells per-day seems about even they both us the same spells list. Cleric gets the whole like where oracle has a spells known# oracle doesn't seem to be restricted on what type of spells she casts based off her alignment unlike the cleric.....spell wise they seem really about even to me, saves like fort and will seem a little better on the cleric...is it just a little flavor difference that makes them different or would one be a way better option keeping in mind you retire at when u reach lvl 12....I don't really see a lot of either played in my area. or is there a cross class combo that i could do with one of them that I'm not thinking of.
-M
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Assuming a general/proper ability score spread, the difference between Clerics and Oracles are like comparing a generalist with a specialist.
Spells/casting -
Clerics,
In terms of spells, Clerics have access to all the spells on their list.
This means that clerics could be summoners one day, buffers the next and restoring and poison removal the following day.
This flexibility differs the Cleric from the Oracle, even more so then Wizards vs Sorcerers (Cos Wizards for to buy their spells.)
However, Clerics only have limited access to spells outside of their spell list. They have only 1 domain spell slot per spell level.
This means that even if a Fire domain Cleric knows fireball, he can usually only cast it once a day.
(Some Archetypes allow spontaneous casting of domain spells.)
Oracles,
Oracles get more spells per day then Clerics. Also since their Mystery gives them spells that uses their spells-per-day, they can even be take on some other roles like that of a blaster/damage dealer.
However, they like the sorcerer, only know a limited pool of spells. And since the ability to swap spells only come as they level, they can't make use of new spells (from news sources) as easily as a cleric.
This means that Oracles are usually great at only one aspect of spell casting. They can be great healers, enchanters, buffers...etc, but if they start dividing their spells known among different type of spells, they won't be a good as an Oracle that specialize in only 1 field.
Clerics on the other hand don't have this restriction.
Oracles do have it better with the alignment system. As it restricts the Cleric from certain spells.
However, do note that Neutral clerics are not affected by this.
Overall however, the alignment restriction don't make or break a spellcaster. There is no 1 alignment-restricted spell that is a "must-have".
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Powers -
Clerics,
In a reversal of roles, the Clerics have less flexibility then the Oracles when it comes to class powers.
Clerics get 2 domains, with usually 1 lv 1 power from each domain and another power at levels 4~8.
There is also the fact that there may not be a Deity with the combination of domains+alignment that you are looking for.
However, what powers the Cleric do get are usually quite powerful. While there are average powers, like the elemental domains' 1d6 range touch attacks, there are also very powerful ones like Growth's instant size upgrade, Liberation's on demand, Freedom of movement and Luck's roll twice and use the better roll.
Oracles get a large selection of powers. These also range from the average to the powerful.
But with so many more choices and "slots" Oracles get more out of them the Clerics as they level.
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Roles (comparing)-
*Healer (HP and Ability damage + poison/curse removal...) -
All good & neutral deities' Clerics have access to Positive energy channel, which means they can start healing from lv 1.
Clerics are great healers overall. Even a battle cleric can call up a heal or rise dead if they have the wis and lv for it.
Among the Oracles, the Life Mystery makes the best healers. The Life Mystery provides them with most of the non-hp damage spells like the restoration spells, requiring only a few other spells like Remove Curse/Remove Disease to cover most of the ailments that a party will suffer from.
Other Oracle Mysteries don't provide as much support. And while they can all cast Cure spells, they have to allocate spells known to pick up the restoration and removal spells.
The BIG DIFFERENCE between the two classes as healers, is that ALL Positive channel clerics are geared to be healers. No matter what role, be it buffer, summoner or battle clerics, they can heal all hp and ailments with time.
Oracles on the other hand are reasonable HP healers (they know all cure or harm spells.), but other then the Life Oracle, most need to invest spells-known to heal non-hp ailments and lack the option to channel positive energy.
*Summoner -
Clerics have one leg up over Oracles as summoners.
The Sacred Summons feat means that Clerics can summon some monsters as standard actions. This + their AOE channel healing, means they can keep their monsters up for longer.
*Blaster -
Oracles wins over the Clerics.
Oracles with the proper Mysteries can be almost as good as arcane caster in dealing out damage.
*Buffer -
Equal. Both classes have great options to make them good buffers.
*Melee -
Both classes can be spec to become melee combatants.
Battle Mystery Oracles have more class powers then a Battle Cleric, but even a battle cleric (that focus on melee attacks) can usually cast most spells just as well as a high wis, caster cleric.
Its a power vs spells flexibility issue.
*Skill Monkey -
Oracles edge out Cleric with more skill points and the Lore Mystery.
Clerics do have the knowledge domain, but don't get as many great support powers as Oracles.
*Extra -
Just as Clerics have Sacred summoning, Oracles are able to pick up the Eldritch Heritage feat chain much more easily then Clerics, with Cha being their main caster stat.
The power of this combination should not be look down upon, but getting the right combination can be tricky.
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Overall,
Overall the two classes are quite balanced, with only a matter of preference/play style for a player to worry about.
In picking which of the 2 to play, I suggest you pick what ROLE you want to play then decide which class suits the role more.
If you want to take on multiple roles, then Clerics are usually better. But if you want to specialize then Oracles have an edge there.
The most awesome breakdown ever!
I'm gong to throw my 2 cents on top of Secane's excellent breakdown. I'm a fan of both classes and I would follow his advice and choose whichever one gives you the flavor you prefer for the character.
Also, I agree that Oracles make better specialists while Clerics make better generalists. In particular, if you want to spend a lot of time fighting in melee, it's easier to build an Oracle who can keep up with the Fighters. In particular, Battle and Metal Oracles with the Skill at Arms revelation become proficient in all martial weapons and heavy armor.
The difference in spells/day is tiny. Thanks to domain spell slots and getting higher level spell slots a level earlier, th advantage is basically non-existent for many levels of play for the oracle. The cost difference between pearls of power and...the rune thingies spontaneous casters use... also helps to render any advantage in spells per day moot, and possibly even slightly reverses it.
Clerics make the better specialists AND generalists. Cleric knows his whole list, so if there's a specific problem, he preps the exact needed spells that day. Oracle has only a few spells known, he can't afford to specialize to such a degree as the cleric can for one day, not even close.
Clerics are more front-loaded from domain goodies.
Clerics have better saves (good fort AND will).
Clerics are less multiple ability dependent (MAD) because wisdom, unlike charisma, is actually useful for stuff besides casting spells and needed to some degree. Cleric uses cha for channel energy, but that's really a minor ability past the early leves anyway. A cleric with cha 10 is hurting less than an oracle w/ wis 10.
Oracle isn't a bad class and you can certainly do well playing one, but cleric is just so stupidly good, it's hard to compete.
Only real edge oracle has is the few unique things that some revelations grant not available to clerics at all. Like Water Sight, or the heavens revelation to buff phatasm spells, and so forth. Of course, clerics also have unique domain powers that no revelation does at all either, like War domain's "spontaneously grab a combat feat!" ability.
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The difference in spells/day is tiny. Thanks to domain spell slots and getting higher level spell slots a level earlier, th advantage is basically non-existent for many levels of play for the oracle. The cost difference between pearls of power and...the rune thingies spontaneous casters use... also helps to render any advantage in spells per day moot, and possibly even slightly reverses it.
Agreed.
Getting a higher level spell slot may seem trivial, but it can be quite damning for a party.
Case in point, I was once in a party as a level 3 Oracle of Life. The party's main fighter got hit with a -6 to Str by one of the monsters.
If I was a Cleric, I would have access to lesser restore by lv 3. However, since I'm an Oracle... no luck there. We ended up having to beg some NPCs for help.
This "disadvantage" of the Oracle disappears as you level up.
In a case of Oracle vs Cleric. The level that you start as a character do factor in to which class is preferable to play.
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In my experience, the Oracle is far better than the Cleric. The Oracles powers tend to be a lot stronger, and allow for personalization while the cleric basically makes all decision at 1st level. The Oracle is far better at whatever the focus on, AND can still be a generalist too. Mystery Spells tend to be a lot better than Domain spells, offering options you can not otherwise get, while the majority of Domain spells are already Cleric spells anyway. Oracles can actually cast those spells more than once, too.
Oracles work off of 1 stat, so like the Wiz and Sor, they tend to hae much better ability scores over all than the Cleric who needs to divide focus so much. All of the "we want to tone down Clerics" things seem to NOT apply to the Oracle, too.
Oracles do not have any alignment or deity restrictions (certain spells they can't cast), tend to get more and better skills, and can outdo a Cleric at basically anything with a little effort.
With Divine (Cleric spells) there are only a handfull that are commonly used, and even Clerics tend to just get a scroll or wand of those others that they might need one day, but don't expect to use often. So having a limited selection of Spells Known really is not an issue for the Oracle, though at times there are some spells you just have to pick one or the other for.
The only real disadvantage Oracls have is that being a Spont caster, they get spell levels later, which actually can be an issue, but not a huge one. Take into account that the Cleric may not even have that spell prepped, and both classes have equal access to scrolls.
Another is the lower Fort save but as I mentioned, Oracles have less manditory stats by nature, and so can actually boost the Dex and Con easier, meaning the tend to have much better Refl and nearly the same Fort in the end. Add the fact that they do not need to boost Wis with items, (unlike the Cleric which probably needs Wis and Cha), and that means the save even more money for other gear and scrolls and whatnot.
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I also just want to point out that Sacred Summons ONLY applies to creatures that have the exact same alignment SUBTYPE as your alignment, not their alignment matches yours. The Celestial and Fiendish templates do not grant a Subtype, so this does not apply to them. On the entire 1-9 list, this is only like 5 monsters, give or take depending on your alignment. If NG, your first monster this would apply to is the SM9 Astral Deva.
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Having played both at low levels, the oracle requires more planning and is more specialised. As an oracle you get some interesting abilities that are not open to the cleric, but how useful they are depends upon your mystery and the role you choose to fill.
From a roleplaying perspective i enjoyed the oracle more because you were chosen/ cursed and didn't really have to be very dedicated and the powers you got were quite unique. As far as mechanics go i think the cleric would generally have filled the role i had to take in the party better and would be more flexible...
I always played clerics until i met the oracle (i have played d20 for 32 years.....and lovingly remember the footsman flail cleric of AD&D and no spells at 1st level from oD&D)
Oracles, they are just cooler, and ooze ideas and rp oppurtunity....if they had a good fort save, they would be da ultimate
you get to a play a class awesome for gnomes and najagor (which themselves are the cool races)
having supernaturals bypasses all that concentration nonsense, spell resistance, fine when your grappled etc
if you have the right spell for the job, you have the right spell for the job
with UMD etc you can be all sorts of things , cover all sorts of things if you need
they dont have a class based aura, which does affect a few things for the oracle
BUT
on paper the cleric is more powerful, but i have fallen in love with the oracle and have 2 PFS ones, one in CC and starting on in JR v soon