How's My PFS Ninja Build Look?

[Prospector]

I normally play casters and don't have much experience with playing a rogue/ninja. So I come to you all in hopes of critiquing my build for a PFS session at a local game store tomorrow. Here is my Str-based Ninja:

Half-Orc Ninja
Str: 16 (+2 racial)
Dex: 14
Con: 13
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Alternative Racial: Toothy (1d4 bite, replaces Orc Ferocity)

Trait: Armor Expert (reduce armor check penalty by 1), Legacy of Sands (+1 Will)

Feat: Dodge

Skills: Acrobatics, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge:Local, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, UMD

Languages: Common, Orc, Tien

Equipment: Backpack, Theives' Tools, Studded Leather, Katana, Shuriken [20], Waterskin

Thinking of picking up Power Attack at 3rd, but not sure what to take after that. Open to all suggestions.

[Jon Otaguro 428]

You are better off taking the trait tusked from orcs of golarian (which is essentially the same as toothy) and substituting orc ferocity for sacred tattoo (+1 all saves).

Lamellar leather is 60 gp for 1 more AC.

[Prospector]

Jon Otaguro 428 wrote:

You are better off taking the trait tusked from orcs of golarian (which is essentially the same as toothy) and substituting orc ferocity for sacred tattoo (+1 all saves).

Lamellar leather is 60 gp for 1 more AC.

Huh, didn't never saw Tusked before. So it functions just like Toothy? I'll think I'll replace Legacy of Sand with it and get Sacred Tattoo (maybe an Oni or some other ninja appropriate Yokai). Nice catch on the armor, I'll take -1 AC Pen. but that's not bad trade for an additional +1 AC. Other than that it looks good? Any advice on Ninja Tricks (planing on taking Vanishing first) or Feats?

P.S. Any advice on what would be an appropriate diety for a Ninja? Planning on him being from Dragon Empire.

[Jon Otaguro 428]

Your biggest issue with a str ninja is going to be AC (starting at AC 17 which isn't bad, but you don't have much room to get it much higher). You will need to figure out how to be in melee and not get hit too hard. Vanishing can keep you alive and get you sneak attacks, but depending on the number of encounters per day, your ki pool is going to limit your attack and defense.

As a skirmisher type character, I would suggest having ranged weapons available and perhaps a reach weapon. You can use these when you want to participate in combat but maybe have less resources available (HP and Ki).

Another alternative is using a darkwood shield to get a shield bonus to AC. Another alternative is dip monk to get crane style and crane wing. Another alternative is to get a wand to buff yourself in combat using UMD (shield gives +4 AC, shield of faith +2AC).

[Prospector]

Plan on getting a Shortbow when I get the cash, but I really want the ninja wielding Melee weapons to get that sneak attack off more reliabily. I think one of the few reach weapons ninjas get is the Kusarigama. Should I put that on things to get when I have the money?

As for the AC issue, I might end up having to UMD myself since I don't want to make myself anymore MAD than I am already by dipping into Monk. Though what's the trick with the Darkwood Shield?

[Jon Otaguro 428]

If the shield has a 0 ACP, then you get no penalties using it even not proficient.

I haven't played a ninja, but I imagine that you would want to save Ki for harder encounters and try to keep safer and use less resources on weaker encounters. I played a magus that occasionally used a long composite bow (without any archery feats) during low to mid levels to compensate for playing a character with moderate AC and low HP. I have used reach weapons on secondary melee type characters a lot to prevent taking the brunt of enemy attacks.

It's going to come down to the type of game you are playing. Having more options allows you to have choices rather than being forced to mix it up and take it.

[Prospector]

I was reading the ninja guide in the guide to guides, and it really makes it sound like you you should go two-weapon fighting and weapon finesse with wakizashis. I've seen dual weilding as rather underwhelming, so I wanted try focusing on using a single weapon.

Your probably right Jon, I need to keep my distance at low levels. I'll plan on getting a Kusarigama and a Composite Shortbow after my first mission. I'm right in thinking I couldn't have a Darkwood Shield and wield the two-handed Katana, right?

[TheSideKick]

why did you choose half orc for a ninja?

also are you trying to optimize your ninja?

and last but not least are you trying to be melee or ranged?

if you want my ninja build, i would be willing to share it. its very powerful

[Prospector]

I would love to see your build TheSideKick. I wanted to go melee primarily in my build, to reliably get my sneak attack. The reason I choose half-Orc was they have darkvision, ability to get a natural attack, floating abilty score bonus and they kinda look like an Oni without being an Oni. I'm thinking of calling the character Kage Oni, or at least that being their professional name. I'm not necessarily going for an optimized build, but I want to really be able have fun playing character and be effective in whatever the party happens to be that session.

[TheSideKick]

oooooo.... then you may like my character. it feels very ninja scrolls ish.

ok so you level like this 1-2 ninja 3-4 oracle then 5-12 ninja.
you take waves oracle and the water sight ability. i chose deff for my curse for roleplay, but choose which ever one you think mixes with your character.

how it works is you get a good reach weapon, cast obscuring mist and get Aoo's from movement and trip attacks without risk of taking Aoo's from not having improved trip.

once you can turn invisible, you run next to your target and cast obscuring mist (swift invisibility, move, standard cast your spell) the with your reach weapon, any enemy that tries to leave the mist provokes an Aoo from you. with a reach weapon every attack is against dexless ac, which gives you sneak attack damage every attack where you are in the mist.

it is extremely powerful. and you rarly ever miss.

i chose half elf for the EWP fauchard, but its not necessary, and the feats weapon focus, combat reflexes, combat expertise, improved trip, and greater trip. you should spend ninja tricks to get combat feats if you want to get into the stride of your character sooner.

i loved this guy in PFS he was so fun to play. just be warned that obscuring mist will cock block your teammates, so be sure to use this to lock down the big guy while everyone else mops up trash.

oh and i forgot, if you get a ranged weapon you can spam sneak attacks with that ranged weapon, bow or ninja star, you can get quite a few sneak attack hits while you're safe in your fog... well excluding aoe attacks on you.

[Prospector]

That sounds really like a really cool build. Since I don't play melee in general I'm not terribly familiar with combat manuevers. I wasn't really planning on doing alot with them since Ninjas are 3/4 BAB and i hear its hard to do without being Fighter or Monk. Not sure I could pull it off with a half-Orc like I was planning. Plus it takes a pretty understanding party to let it happen. And I kinda wanted to go full ninja so I could get Invisible Blade at 10. Still it is a really impressive build.

[kaisc006]

sounds like a neat build but is too complex and takes actions to set up. Your original build is perfect. Simple and efficient. Dip 1-4 levels into fighter(weapon master) to pick up heavy armor prof. and wear an O-Yoroi. Focus on two-handing your katana and only spend your ki on extra attacks. Grab Power Attack as soon as possible, furious focus, and then use left over feats for Iron Will, Dodge, ect. Pick up ninja talents that focus on damage output not flashy abilities. Only one I might suggest that uses ki is vanishing trick.

Follow Admiral Ackbar: Dual Wielding... It's a trap!!! It very rarely pulls ahead of 2H weapons and is too feat intensive. Multi-Classing with the exception of a 1-4 dip in a martial class is also devastating to your character's power.

I would change your stats to:
Str: 18 (+2 race)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 14

This will be for a straight ninja but I deffinitely suggest dipping fighter.
Feats:
1: Dodge
3: Power Attack
5: Extra Ki
7: Furious Focus
9: Iron Will
11: Toughness

Money should be spent like this: weapons>ability boost>armor>saves

weapons: +1 keen katana

ability boost: All into Str. If you have money, pick up a headband of intellect with linguistics as a primary skill. You will know dozens of languages and can really bring in RP elements into normally dull PFS scenarios.

armor: As heavy as possible. If you multi fighter, get O-Yoroi with stealth enhancements if you still want to be look ninja.

saves: Cloak of Resist

I had a lvl 2 Samurai (Ronin)/ninja in PFS that could outdamage fighters... without using his sneak attack.

[thalion]

kaisc006 wrote:

I had a lvl 2 Samurai (Ronin)/ninja in PFS that could outdamage fighters... without using his sneak attack.

Hmmm, I'd be interested in seeing that ronin/ninja build if you don't mind sharing it?

[kaisc006]

thalion wrote:

Hmmm, I'd be interested in seeing that ronin/ninja build if you don't mind sharing it?

Kenkaku Tourou:

Human Samurai 2/Ninja 3

Str: 18 (+2 race) (20 with belt)
Dex: 14
Con: 13 (14 at 4th level)
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 12

Traits: Reactionary, Iron Will

Feats:
1st (Samurai): Iron WIll, Power Attack
2nd (Ninja)
3rd (Ninja): Extra Ki, Ninja Trick (Weapon Training Nodachi)
4th (Samurai)
5th (Ninja): Furious Focus

AC: 21 (+1 O-Yoroi)
HP: 43
Saves:
Fort: +7 (+4 base, +2 stat, +1 cloak)
Ref: +6 (+3 base, +2 stat, +1 cloak)
Will: +6 (+1 base, +1 stat, +1 cloak, +2 feat, +1 trait) Ronin ability lets him reroll after failing duration spells. You will be the killing everything so PFS GMs will target you lol.

Weapon: +1 Nodachi +11(+4BAB, +5Str, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 magic)
1d10+12 (+7 Str, +4 PA, +1 magic) 18-20 crit
And don't forget 2d6 sneak attack

You outdamage the fighter when using ki because you are making two attacks at +11 that both deal 1d10+12 damage. You will have 5 ki points per day. Assuming most PFS scenarios give you one rest, this is more than enough. I was debating taking a 4 level dip in fighter (weapon master) or sticking it out with the ninja. I liked the Nodachi because it seemed a cool concept to taunt your opponents into charging you but sadly some GMs metagame their NPCs (i.e. Barbarians you just insulted choosing not to charge) and the rules regarding readying against charges can be fishy. Staying with katana will hardly affect your DPR.

[Prospector]

That Samurai/Ninja build is pretty cool, I was thinkIng a dip into Barbarian, maybe the urban variety. Would suck to lose out on Invisible blade trick but might be fun to have a ninja who can self buff when under extreme distress. Anyway since I'm still playing around the character I went with a different character yesterday, a switch-hitter ranger. Had a great time with the character. Still can't wait to play a Ninja. I appreciate all the fun Ninja ideas and am sure others are enjoying them as well.