ARG: Half human, half Kitsune: balanced?

[Foxdie13]

So I was playing around with my new book (advanced rage guide) and was fooling around with the race builder. Now for my next game, DM told me that we will be monstrous race (ARG or monster as pc) coming from different places. He got a story to mix everything, didnt told me all the details.

Long story short: I was looking at the kitsune for my sorcerer and was not quite satisfied. I was trying to make a half kitsune and I know its gonna be GM approuval as always, but I wanted to confirm (or not) with you if what I builded would be balanced.

WE work with 20 points systems and everyone will have strange races, mostly like the one you see in the ARG (forget about drow noble right away). So here it is:

shapechanger-humanoid (kitsune blood trait)
medium size 0
medium speed 0
standard (+2 choice) 0
standard language 0
flexible bonus feat 4
skilled 4? (that or changing it for a flat bonus on perception?)
kitsune magic? 2 (working to find something that would fit)
low light vision 1
prehensile tail 2 (only for visual, no in game effect intended)

total: +13

So story style: he got some of the bonus from human, keep his tail but cannot shift back to human form. He got the face of a human, but must hide his tail constantly. 16 race point seemed to me like something in line with other special races like aasimar with 15 points and such.

p.s. I know it will be a few point more than human, but thats normal fr this campaign. To give you exemple, we will have a damphir and a aasimar, so it gives you the average

EDIT: adjusted original post with build of the race so far. Suggestion still needed

[Alexander Augunas]

I would not allow this in any of my games for several reasons, which I will outline for you.

#1 - Human, but Better: Between having the flexible bonus feat AND having the skilled trait, your "half-human" might as well be "super human," because he has all of the human's racial traits. The human starting package, when you look at it, is pretty weak to be honest. Flexible, but weak. Why be human with you can be a half-kitsune and get the SAME human traits plus a lot more?

#2 - Your Race Breaks the Half-Human Norm: Half-human races typically get a human ability score progression (+2 to any one ability score) if the other parent race is also humanoid (hence why tieflings and aasimar are except from this rule; the lineage is not a humanoid lineage). Your race gets the flexible progression.

Now, how would I fix this? Well, first thing's first, you need to give your race a newly minted kitsune-blood racial trait, similar to the half-orc and half-elf's traits. It would allow your race to be treated both as a human and a kitsune for effects.

Second, you need to give it some kind of skill bonus. Perception, Acrobatics, and Survival are all very appropriate choices for such a creature.

Third, drop Prehensile Tail. That trait usually refers to a tail that is so dexterous that it can be used like a limb (see a monkey or a rat). Kitsune and their basis creatures, foxes, do not have tails that function like that. The tail is primarily used for balance (hence why I suggested Acrobatics earlier).

Finally, you need to alter Kitsune magic. Give your race inherent magical powers, that is a very good thing, but don't just copy/paste EXACTLY what the kitsune has. The half-race's bloodline is muddied with human 'taint,' after all. Their magic is probably going to be less potent.

Finally, the REAL reason this race doesn't work well is your final line of your post, "I put dual minded just because its an half race, i can remove it if needed, just there for fluff." If you are building this race and themeing it as a half-kitsne / half-human "because of fluff," then your race is going to be inbalanced EVERY time. Its one of the big reasons that the race builder is intended to be a GM tool and not a player tool. Players will look at the race and think "what race can I build that accents my class build?" GMs will look at a race and think, "I have an idea for a race in my campaign, how can I make them fit in?" What this comes down to is that the race looks like you said, "Oh man, I love the kistune but I don't like how I take a Strength penalty to be one and I really want more skill points and an extra feat like a human. Why don't I mash them all together and play that?!"

Sorry if that sounded harsh, but that is exactly the vibe I get from this race.

[Foxdie13]

thats cool actually I'll try to keep in line with this opinion and work out somthing. You have some good points there that I'll probably change before showing this to my gm.

any other suggestions?

edit: what kind of magical traits would fit the kitsune (except the one that the pure kitsune get)?

[Yebng]

looking at the kitsune race, which is only a 10 RP build, and looking at what you have I generally like what you have but have just a couple of suggestions.

1. Get rid of prehensile tail, you're part fox and fox's tails can't do that, neither could the kitsune's.
2. Drop dual minded, your ancestry shouldn't really be giving you that bonus, however you could give yourself something like "Illusion Resistance (1RP)" but call it "Polymorph Resistance" with the appropriate save bonus instead, reflecting your ancestry as a natural shapechanger.

Those changes would make the race more ancestrally congruent but would still put you at 14 RP right between Tiefling (13RP) and Aasimar (15RP)

And if you really wanted that 16RP target number you could give yourself the Kitsune's "Agile" for 2RP

[Foxdie13]

for the 16 RP: the number of point is not really important, its really more for balance than anything else.

for the tail: maybe I read it wrong but it seems the 2 RP tail is doing nothing except being there and being able to pick really light object on myself (no attack or grab or nothing else). It was more just for the visual than anything that's gonna be useful in a fight or anything. (like the guy who have to hide his tail to pass as a human)

dual minded is already removed, took the suggestion earlier, thanks to point it out.

I'll update my original post before going to my job so people see where I'm at right now.

thank you for your comments appreciated

[Gilfalas]

Going to agree with Yebng that if the tail is there purely for RP purposes and provides absolutely no in game benefit then you probably do not need to pay 2 RP for it. The Kitsune don't pay for their tail and it gives them no real game benefit. Why should you pay for it? If you pay the points then you get a tail that CAN do something.

[Stockvillain]

I agree that the prehensile tail does not fit here; foxes cannot move their tails like that, and neither can kitsune. No reason, then, that this half-kitsune should be able to do so.

[Foxdie13]

I guess if the tail can do something or not will depend on my GM, I'll accept both decision (I'm a GM in my actual campaign so I can see both sides). Its just that I was going point by point in the book to see what would/would not fit and I saw that point.

If someone would have to create that half kitsune, anyone would have done it differently?

[Foxdie13]

lets forget about the tail for right now and just say that the character have a tail that can do nothing and its ONLY there for visual(like a fox) (can't edit my first post from job)

what about the rest?

[The NPC]

I've only just skimmed this thread mind you, but it has been said that the child of human and a kitsune has equal chances chances of being either.

Not trying to shoot anybody to shoot anybody down. It just seemed pertinent is all.

[Foxdie13]

The NPC wrote:

I've only just skimmed this thread mind you, but it has been said that the child of human and a kitsune has equal chances chances of being either.

Not trying to shoot anybody to shoot anybody down. It just seemed pertinent is all.

Not sure to understand what you mean but it seems interesting. Can you explain me more?

[The NPC]

Foxdie13 wrote:

The NPC wrote:

I've only just skimmed this thread mind you, but it has been said that the child of human and a kitsune has equal chances chances of being either.

Not trying to shoot anybody to shoot anybody down. It just seemed pertinent is all.

Not sure to understand what you mean but it seems interesting. Can you explain me more?

I accidentally double typed and didn't catch it. Sorry. I was just letting you know this fact but didn't want to come off as aggressive or that I was putting your idea down in the process.

As for human and kitsune mating: I asked the question once not too long ago how cross compatible humans and kitsune were and James Jacobs answered that they could produce children together and the children would be one or the other.

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Perhaps the half-kitsunes aren't naturally-born creations? Perhaps they were just normal humans who happened to catch the interest of naturally chaotic/mischievous fey... or someone who left out a particularly tasty cake and saucer of milk for the fey... or someone who respectfully cleaned up/trimmed around a nature shrine.... or someone who fell asleep in a mushroom/fairy ring? So the fey/kami decided to "reward" the person with a "gift" by transformation into a half-kitsune.

Maybe the kami/fey now also expect additional services for Nature or the First World? Maybe they are creating a new type of scouts to head off some yokai/unseelie threat? Maybe they are trying to teach the individual to respect Nature more? Maybe they just like messing with people?