Human Fighter (Polearm Master)
Pathfinder Society 20 Point Buy
18 STR (+2 Racial) (10)
14 DEX (5)
14 CON (5)
13 INT (3)
11 WIS (1)
7 CHA (-4)
Feats
Level 1 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fauchard, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
Level 2 - Power Attack
Level 3 - Combat Reflexes
Level 4 - Furious Focus
Level 5 - Iron Will
Level 6 - Greater Trip
Level 7 - Improved Iron Will
Level 8 - Improved Critical
Level 9 - Tripping Strike
Level 10 - Critical Focus
Level 11 - ???
Level 12 - ???
Traits
Adopted: Military Merchant (Dwarven) +1 Perception and CS
Carefully Hidden: +1 Will, +2 Saving against divination effects
Exotic Weapon Proficiency
Fauchard
1d10, 18-20/x2, Slashing, Reach, Trip
My idea is to play a Polearm Master Fighter and take advantage of a trip build using the Fauchard. I'd gain the bonuses on attack and damage as a Fighter so I'd forgo the Weapon Focus chain in favor of utility feats. When I can't trip an enemy, I'm two-handing a reach weapon with Power Attack for very good damage.
dont do a polearm master. you can put armor spikes on and negate the main reason to play that archetype.
a normal fighter would be better imo.
a different rout you can take your character, is a lorewarden. they get combat expertise for free letting you get another feat in there. you also gain bonuses to trip with that archetype.
Its actually not a bad choice. For a Lore Warden build, I could become even better at Tripping plus I get the standard Weapon Training to make use of Dueling Gloves in addition to secondary weapon sets. The additional skills obviously go into Knowledge skills to trigger the class ability successfully. To shore up the light armor proficiency, I could invest in Elven Chain as well.
Regarding Weapon Focus, I think it impedes on the build too much. I would like to take it but I'd need to get rid of feats.
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Change stats accordingly:
Str 17, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 7
Will save has gone up so we have less need for Iron Will until later.
1 Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Power Attack
2 Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
3 Weapon Focus
4 Furious Focus (Str +1)
5 Weapon Specialization
6 Greater Trip
7 Iron Will
8 Improved Critical (Str +1)
9 Tripping Strike
10 Critical Focus
11 Dazing Assault
12 Greater Weapon Specialization (Str +1)
It's tight, but it works. Personally, I would drop some of the critical stuff and stick with a guisarme. That would allow you to take advantage of the new ARG option of swapping the human bonus feat and skill for another +2 (extra dexterity or constition please).
Keep in mind that trip is not going to be always useful. Doing mad damage, on the other hand, is nearly always useful.
Its actually not a bad choice. For a Lore Warden build, I could become even better at Tripping plus I get the standard Weapon Training to make use of Dueling Gloves in addition to secondary weapon sets. The additional skills obviously go into Knowledge skills to trigger the class ability successfully. To shore up the light armor proficiency, I could invest in Elven Chain as well.
Regarding Weapon Focus, I think it impedes on the build too much. I would like to take it but I'd need to get rid of feats.
I'm not convinced that it impedes on the build at all. You're trying to find two more feats to take already. Looks like it will help, not hurt.
Its actually not a bad choice. For a Lore Warden build, I could become even better at Tripping plus I get the standard Weapon Training to make use of Dueling Gloves in addition to secondary weapon sets. The additional skills obviously go into Knowledge skills to trigger the class ability successfully. To shore up the light armor proficiency, I could invest in Elven Chain as well.
Regarding Weapon Focus, I think it impedes on the build too much. I would like to take it but I'd need to get rid of feats.
wait whats not a bad choice, pole arm master? its a horrible archetype, the key features are easily accomplished by cheaper means. maybe i just misunderstood your post.
But you need it for Greater Trip which gives you an extra attack against a foe that you tripped.
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I want to make a recommendation to you to try one of my very favorite character builds. The concept begins with the idea of a Pathfinder Society combat school, one that teaches warriors a meditative trance they can enter into when engaging in combat to be able to increase their strength, speed or toughness as needed as well as other techniques. This takes the form of 1 level of Urban Barbarian (check out the archetype, it's really great and perfectly compliments this character) as well as the Extra Rage feat and the Berserker of the Society trait which all told gives you 15 rounds of Rage at 1st level (assuming a 14 CON). That's more than enough for your purposes and should suffice for 2-3 good combats a day.
After that one level, the character progresses as a Lore Warden, maximizing his ability to use reach weapons and to perform combat manuevers, taking advantage of his speed and intellect as well as his physical strength. One of his most devastating tricks in combat is the ability to perform a reaching, lunging Whirlwind Attack, taking a 5' step as he does so to maximize the number of foes he can target, and then getting AoO's on any who try to close with him.
This is a really fun character to play and deadly in combat - we ran a few combat scenarios to try and see what he could do, and in one of them, at 5th level, he defeated 8 3rd level warriors in two rounds, taking very little damage in the process.
Human Barbarian 1 (Urban Barbarian) / Fighter 11 (Lore Warden)
Pathfinder Society 20 Point Buy
18 STR (+2 Racial) (10)
14 DEX (5)
14 CON (5)
13 INT (3)
11 WIS (1)
7 CHA (-4)
Feats:
Level 1 - Power Attack, Extra Rage
Level 2 - Cleave
Level 3 - Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Dodge
Level 5 - Mobility, Spring Attack, retrain Cleave to Whirlwind Attack
Level 7 - Lunge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fauchard
Level 9 - Improved Trip, Tripping Strike
Level 11 - Weapon Focus: Fauchard, Greater Weapon Focus: Fauchard
Traits:
Berserker of the Society (+3 rounds of Rage)
Carefully Hidden (+1 Will saves, +2 vs. Divination)
I also use a Bardiche until I can get a Keen Fauchard, which is why I hold off on taking the exotic proficiency until 7th level.
Something to think about is Trip. Tripping is great - I use it myself, and being able to fold it into a critical hit makes it all the better (I would personally only use Trip as a free attempt, almost never as a standard action), but you have to consider that 1) anything you crit is probably going to die anyway, so being dead before the ground won't give you any use out of trip and 2) there are a lot of things out there you can't trip at all. An option to consider at 9th instead is to take two other 'improved' maneuvers that might pay dividends in special situations, specifically Disarm and Reposition - especially if you intend to go on and take critical feats like Staggering and Stunning. Those Lore Warden bonuses apply to all maneuvers, so you might as well take advantage of them.
I have the build all the way to 20 if you would like to see it. You actually get a nice selection of skills with this character if you're smart about it, and don't discount the Lore Warden's 'Know Thy Enemy' ability which stacks with Weapon Training and can be performed as a swift action at level 14 (15 for this character).
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What does the urban barbarian bring to this that the regular barbarian does not? I would prefer fast movement to crowd control every time.
Tripping is... okay. It's better for PFS than normal because of all the humanoids, but it's still going to flag against anything that flies or has multiple legs or is big. You want the ability to have lots of damage coming out when you don't have the wherewithal to trip, and that's why I would NOT recommend going without Weapon Specialization, as it's quite the amazing little fighter-only boon.
What does the urban barbarian bring to this that the regular barbarian does not? I would prefer fast movement to crowd control every time.
Unless of course you are playing a character who uses Whirlwind Attack and often finds himself adjacent to two or more foes by design - then its ideal. Fast movement for melee types is a little over-rated in my opinion, unless you plan on spending a lot of time running away.
As far as what it brings is versatility. Personally I think not suffering the -2 AC penalty is more useful in the middle of combat than +4 CON, especially when you're going to lose those extra hit points anyway, but the key to this build is being able to raise your Dexterity as well. Higher Dexterity means more attacks of opportunity with your reach weapon, means a higher AC in your light armor and so on. Heck - it even broadens your options for those times when you want to rage to improve your chances of succeeding at a skill, and finally it allows you to use your Know Thy Enemy ability even while Raging.
Personally I like the Urban Barbarian more than the standard version, but that could simply be a matter of taste. How well it compliments the Lore Warden in this build on the other hand is not.
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No, I disagree with you on how it complements.
First of all, urban barbarian loses proficiency with medium armour; this means it's not giving us any extra proficiencies.
Second, we lose fast movement, and replace it with something which is a lot less versatile. I do not think being able to ignore crowds as difficult terrain makes up for the ability to wear a breastplate and move 30 ft. Doesn't do it for me.
Third, we lose a lot of the oomph of rage. Yes, you can increase your dexterity now; no, you probably don't ever want to. The fact that it lowers your AC by 2 is immaterial when we notice that he's now proficient with medium armour, gaining that 2 right back. (And he'll have a higher AC when not raging as well)
Know Thy Enemy is not a great ability, I'm afraid. Lore warden is something you take for the boost to CMB and free Combat Expertise.
Unfortunately, your build also suffers because it's not built with PFS in mind. In PFS, either the mooks are inconsequential or they are not many enough to make Whirlwind Attack typically viable. Moreover, the battles often take place in cramped enough quarters that Lunge + reach weapon will not always play out.
If you want to stack a level of barbarian on, make it a regular barbarian. You get a lot more for the single dip, especially playing a strength-based character.
No, I disagree with you on how it complements.
First of all, urban barbarian loses proficiency with medium armour; this means it's not giving us any extra proficiencies.
Second, we lose fast movement, and replace it with something which is a lot less versatile. I do not think being able to ignore crowds as difficult terrain makes up for the ability to wear a breastplate and move 30 ft. Doesn't do it for me.
Third, we lose a lot of the oomph of rage. Yes, you can increase your dexterity now; no, you probably don't ever want to. The fact that it lowers your AC by 2 is immaterial when we notice that he's now proficient with medium armour, gaining that 2 right back. (And he'll have a higher AC when not raging as well)
Know Thy Enemy is not a great ability, I'm afraid. Lore warden is something you take for the boost to CMB and free Combat Expertise.
Unfortunately, your build also suffers because it's not built with PFS in mind. In PFS, either the mooks are inconsequential or they are not many enough to make Whirlwind Attack typically viable. Moreover, the battles often take place in cramped enough quarters that Lunge + reach weapon will not always play out.
If you want to stack a level of barbarian on, make it a regular barbarian. You get a lot more for the single dip, especially playing a strength-based character.
Having actually played the character, that has been the exact opposite of my experience, I'm afraid.
You in a Breastplate with Rage and Fast Movement = 30', AC 14.
Me in a Chain Shirt with Focused Rage and no Fast Movement = 30', AC 14.
Of course, I won't get the higher check penalties associated with heavier armor, and I'm still getting my AC and attack bonuses from crowd control. Ignoring crowds as difficult terrain is hardly the benefit of crowd control though I've used it once or twice - getting +1 to attacks and +1 AC is, and that's something I'll take all day over fast movement I'm almost never going to use anyway, especially when I'm regularly attacking multiple foes. How often in the middle of melee do you suddenly need to move 40'? You yourself say that combat tends to take place in cramped conditions, and speaking of cramped conditions...
Its not uncommon for people fail to understand the value of Whirlwind Attack, especially with a reach weapon and especially at lower levels. Think about it - at 5th level no one else even has a second iterative attack yet, and so long as two foes are within 20' of each other you get two attacks at full BAB. That alone is worth it. Sometimes you'll get three or four or even five, and that's without having to be surrounded by enemies - so while you're hammering one mook a round, this character is quite literally mowing them down... you'd be amazed at how much you're not missing that medium armor when everyone is laying dead at your feet. I've found the pre-req's a lot more useful than I expected to as well.
Again, what about the versatility of being able to increase Dexterity instead of Strength when playing a character with a reach weapon? For everyone else Rage is an offensive tool only, but what if you're holding the line against a wave of foes? +2 AC, a higher initiative, a higher Reflex save AND two more AoO's a round can go a long, long way, especially in PFS play. Also keep in mind you aren't losing the option to Rage in its traditional form should you wish to.
I'll readily admit that Know Thy Enemy is a meh ability - until it becomes a Swift action in which case its a truly awesome ability, and one you'll find yourself using literally every round of combat. You tout Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, yes? Well this ability when used as a swift action gives you the benefit of Focus, Greater Focus AND Specialization, except it can be used with any weapon including bows.
The character as built is incredibly versatile and survivable, and all of the unique options offered by Urban Barbarian are without a doubt the best compliment to it.
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Having actually played the character, that has been the exact opposite of my experience, I'm afraid.
You in Medium Armor with Fast Movement, Rage and a Breastplate = 30', AC 14.
Me in Light Armor with Rage and a Chain Shirt, no Fast Movement = 30', AC 14.That medium armor you're so fond of dramatically reduces the fast movement you're also so fond of - and of what use is fast movement anyway beyond the odd chase scene? How often in the middle of melee do you suddenly need to move 40'? You yourself say that combat tends to take place in cramped conditions...
Ignoring crowds as difficult terrain is hardly the benefit of crowd control though I've...
Except the first barbarian has higher health and has the option later on to pick up a mithral breastplate for much faster movement.
See, difficult terrain is common, but only a small fraction is from crowds. I would much rather move at 40' than 30' with the option to ignore crowds.
How are you getting that +1 bonus to attacks and AC if you try to keep yourself 10 feet away from your enemies? It only applies when adjacent to two or more enemies.
Urban barbarian with a reach weapon means not taking advantage of crowd control, most of the time.
It also means lower health and lower will saves, and a lower flat-footed AC. This is relevant, because you're certainly not grabbing Uncanny Dodge with this build.
Of course this is a YMMV discussion, but I really don't think urban barbarian is worth it for this build. Crowd control is nigh unusable and replaces fast movement, you lose your only chance at medium armour, and controlled rage is pound-for-pound worse.
Except the first barbarian has higher health and has the option later on to pick up a mithral breastplate for much faster movement.
How are you getting that +1 bonus to attacks and AC if you try to keep yourself 10 feet away from your enemies? It only applies when adjacent to two or more enemies.
Urban barbarian with a reach weapon means not taking advantage of crowd control, most of the time.
That higher health is fool's gold that disappears as soon as combat is over with... and you keep changing your argument each time its disproved.
Regarding the use of Crowd Control, as I said, its a matter of actually having experience playing the character and using its collective abilities - for instance in this case, understanding how Whirlwind Attack can be used in concert with a 5' step.
You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, as is everyone... but 9 times out of 10 I'm probably going to take the word of someone who has the experience to back that opinion up.
Consider the horse chopper instead of the fauchard.
And I agree with the suggestion of the lore warden.
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You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, as is everyone... but 9 times out of 10 I'm probably going to take the word of someone who has the experience to back that opinion up.
Snide jabbing at my experience aside, I don't think the urban barbarian is a good archetype for what the OP wants his character to do.
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You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, as is everyone... but 9 times out of 10 I'm probably going to take the word of someone who has the experience to back that opinion up.Snide jabbing at my experience aside, I don't think the urban barbarian is a good archetype for what the OP wants his character to do.
It's hardly snide or a jab - I've played the character, you haven't is all. Clearly that would have an impact on the validity of our respective opinions, no?
I don't know whether the Urban Barbarian is the ideal dip for what he wants to do, in part because I don't know all that he wants to do and even he might not know. He might not have been aware of the option or ever even considered a Barbarian dip. This suggestion may have opened his eyes and expanded what he 'wants to do', or it may have made no difference whatsoever. Often times when I post builds asking for input, someone makes a suggestion that takes the character in a direction I hadn't considered myself.
You do realize that the Urban Barbarian can Rage EXACTLY like a standard Barbarian, and that Focused Rage is just a wider array of options customizable for every circumstance?
You do realize that the Urban Barbarian can Rage EXACTLY like a standard Barbarian, and that Focused Rage is just a wider array of options customizable for every circumstance?
+1; I was going to mention the same thing.
I agree that getting no medium armor or fast movement sucks, but the bonuses from crowd control can be gained even with a reach weapon if you are really tactical with your 5 foot steps.
Plus, IMHO, the versatility of Controlled Rage is worth it.
This made me wonder about a few things, though, as I'm thinking of building a STR-based rogue Thug/Scout and possibly dipping a level or two in Urban Barbarian.
Story Archer, do you think that the +bonus to intimidate crowds would work with Dazzling Display? Flavor-wise it sounds like it would and be pretty cool.... but harsh RAW would probably be a no.
Also, would it be worth it to take the 2nd lvl in Urban Barbarian to get Uncanny Dodge (especially since Scout loses the Rogue Uncanny Dodge) and a Rage Power?
If so, what Rage Power would be best?
Thank, and sorry for going slightly off topic >.<
You do realize that the Urban Barbarian can Rage EXACTLY like a standard Barbarian, and that Focused Rage is just a wider array of options customizable for every circumstance?
+1; I was going to mention the same thing.
I agree that getting no medium armor or fast movement sucks, but the bonuses from crowd control can be gained even with a reach weapon if you are really tactical with your 5 foot steps.
Plus, IMHO, the versatility of Controlled Rage is worth it.
This made me wonder about a few things, though, as I'm thinking of building a STR-based rogue Thug/Scout and possibly dipping a level or two in Urban Barbarian.
Story Archer, do you think that the +bonus to intimidate crowds would work with Dazzling Display? Flavor-wise it sounds like it would and be pretty cool.... but harsh RAW would probably be a no.
Also, would it be worth it to take the 2nd lvl in Urban Barbarian to get Uncanny Dodge (especially since Scout loses the Rogue Uncanny Dodge) and a Rage Power?
If so, what Rage Power would be best?Thank, and sorry for going slightly off topic >.<
I've got a Thug/Scout I've been messing around with and I love the potential - mine is built as a Half-Orc Barbarian 2 (Invulnerable Rager)/Rogue 10 (Thug & Scout)/Fighter 8 (Lore Warden). He uses an Earthbreaker and let's just say he's a lot more Thug than Scout.
I've never been a fan of Dazzling Display personally - I'm more the Dreadful Carnage type - but I don't see any reason at all why that would not work. I tend to lean towards the 'let's play' mindset than endlessly worrying about debatable points of technical minutia.
I find Uncanny Dodge to be so-so, but Improved Uncanny Dodge can be a life-saver, especially if you plan on being in the thick of it often. In this instance I wouldn't worry about it - better to get to your Sneak Attacks and whatnot a level earlier. If you do decide to stick around for that Rage Power I'd probably consider Reckless Abandon since its advancement isn't predicated on Barbarian level.
Something to consider: look into the Bludgeoner feat and then Sap Adept and Sap Master. Non-lethal damage isn't effective against everything, but when it can be used, you will be the king of the one-hit, one-kill (ah, one-sleep?) attack, which is ideal considering that you need to move around to get the full benefit of the Scout Archetype.
You do realize that the Urban Barbarian can Rage EXACTLY like a standard Barbarian, and that Focused Rage is just a wider array of options customizable for every circumstance?
+1; I was going to mention the same thing.
I agree that getting no medium armor or fast movement sucks, but the bonuses from crowd control can be gained even with a reach weapon if you are really tactical with your 5 foot steps.
Plus, IMHO, the versatility of Controlled Rage is worth it.
This made me wonder about a few things, though, as I'm thinking of building a STR-based rogue Thug/Scout and possibly dipping a level or two in Urban Barbarian.
Story Archer, do you think that the +bonus to intimidate crowds would work with Dazzling Display? Flavor-wise it sounds like it would and be pretty cool.... but harsh RAW would probably be a no.
Also, would it be worth it to take the 2nd lvl in Urban Barbarian to get Uncanny Dodge (especially since Scout loses the Rogue Uncanny Dodge) and a Rage Power?
If so, what Rage Power would be best?Thank, and sorry for going slightly off topic >.<
I've got a Thug/Scout I've been messing around with and I love the potential - mine is built as a Half-Orc Barbarian 2 (Invulnerable Rager)/Rogue 10 (Thug & Scout)/Fighter 8 (Lore Warden). He uses an Earthbreaker and let's just say he's a lot more Thug than Scout.
I've never been a fan of Dazzling Display personally - I'm more the Dreadful Carnage type - but I don't see any reason at all why that would not work. I tend to lean towards the 'let's play' mindset than endlessly worrying about debatable points of technical minutia.
I find Uncanny Dodge to be so-so, but Improved Uncanny Dodge can be a life-saver, especially if you plan on being in the thick of it often. In this instance I wouldn't worry about it - better to get to your Sneak Attacks and whatnot a level earlier. If you do decide to stick around for that Rage Power I'd probably consider Reckless Abandon...
I agree that Dazzling Display is meh.... but unfortunately a requirement for the AMAZEBALLS Shatter Defenses, which is key to the build later on.
I was looking at Bludgeoner for sure... though I was debating going with Improved Unarmed Attack and combining that with the Underhanded talent. Technically the talent says you have to attack with a concealed weapon in the surprise round, but how more 'concealed' can a simple unarmed attack be?
For the things that are immune to non-lethal, I was just thinking of going with a pair of Cestus as back-up (bit more damage and crit range, plus B or P). It's also much easier to enchant those, and I can eventually make them Merciful.
But yeah.... otherwise Bludgeoner all the way.
Just make sure you at least give a looksee at Sap Adept and Sap Master. You'll be glad you did, if not for this build then for another.
Just make sure you at least give a looksee at Sap Adept and Sap Master. You'll be glad you did, if not for this build then for another.
Indeed! That is exactly my intent!
The concept of a huge burly Thug throwing knockout blows and haymakers was my inspiration for this build.
Sap Master requires Flat-footed, hence why I want Shatter Defenses so badly.
A Scout/Thug intimidate focused Rogue just seems to mesh perfectly with the combination.
This will also be for a friends city-based campaign, so I'll mostly be facing humanoids.
First, I would go with the Half Elf instead of human. You stille get exotic weapon as a bonus feat (with ancestral arm) and you get a better vision in the dark (even a darkvision 60ft!) and some immunities. For the rest, it don't seems that bad. True, the ''normal fighter with spiked armor'' may be better, but you play a spearman to fight with a spear, right? ;)
Also, you need lunge in your build (with half elf, you could take Iron will later IMO).